Kadoo's to Redington/Sage!!

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by fredaevans, Aug 7, 2007.

  1. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,123
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +123 / 0
    Couple of weeks back I dunked myself in the North Umpqua river and apparently cracked my rod over a rock. Few casts later and my '3-piece' was a 4-piece rod.:mad: Sent the rod into Redington/Sage to get a new tip .... Call this morning from Bainbridge Island and nice lady telling me I was 'screwed' as they no longer made the rod and what would I like instead?

    Caution, Fred, Caution .... but no, they're going to send me a brand new rod of my choice (a 12'6'' 7wt spey) at no charge. Now when you're specific on the form that the breakage was no fault of the equipment, just the equipment driver and they'll still send you a new one.:D

    That fellows, and Ladies, is WAY BEYOND any of my expectations!

    Fred
  2. Jergens AKA Joe Willauer

    Posts: 2,141
    Twin Bridges, MT
    Ratings: +19 / 0
    thats what you get when you buy good quality equipment.
  3. Hal Eckert Member

    Posts: 615
    West GLs
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I still would not by a Sage, too expensive lots of cheaper and as good options available from other manufacturers.

    How was the NU catching this year ?

    :beer2:

    BG
  4. Matt Paluch Member

    Posts: 261
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    Ummmm, There are a lot of rods out there that are comparable to Sage. There are none that are lots cheaper and as good quality. Here's the simple test - If they were the same price, which would you buy?

    There is nothing wrong with buying less expensive equipment, but it is not as good as the high end stuff.
  5. obiwankanobi Active Member

    Posts: 1,313
    Ratings: +100 / 0
    Fred,

    Which model did you ask for?
  6. Preston Active Member

    Posts: 2,487
    .
    Ratings: +474 / 0
    Kadoo's?
  7. Steelie Mike Active Member

    Posts: 1,600
    Camas, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    In response to the test, I would buy a Echo II or Beulah anyday over a Sage. Sage makes wonderful products but I have not found one that was worth the penny in a long time. Quality? Depends on your defentition of quality.

    Fred, Sage and Redington have wonderful customer service. I have had great experience from both of them over the years. This includes before Sage bought Redington.
  8. Matt Paluch Member

    Posts: 261
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    :beathead: An Echo II or Beulah may be fine for small trout streams, they even have decent tapers and are pleasurable to fish in many situations. The irrefutable fact is that Echo and Beulah do not make rods that are built as sturdy or with the same quality control. You will break 10 of these rods to every one sage rod. Moreover, the tapers that are built into high quality rods like sage and winston allow for easier casting, more dampening (keeps the rod tip from wiggling at the end of a cast), and increased line speed. I don't want to sound like a snob here who has only fished with high end stuff... I started with a $50 browning rod that I used for 7 years before upgrading. I am lucky to have fished most every line of rod out there and definitely casted more than my fair share. It is worth buying the best rods available because they perform better and break less often. Now for the disclaimer... I do not work for any rod company.
  9. Kevin Giusti New Member

    Posts: 216
    Fort Bragg,Ca
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Well Fred it looks as though your post has been hijacked. Fishntiethebest you stated "echo and Beulah do not make make rods that are built as sturdy or with the same quality control. You will break 10 of these rods to every one sage rod." Very bold statement. I was just wondering what evidence you have to back this 10 to 1 ratio? Have you taken 10 beulahs or echos out and broke them and used 1 sage for the same duration with no breakage? You dont work for a rod company so maybe you work for quality control or something? I think any rod is prone to breakage, whether from user error, production errors, or poor quality control. I own rods from all three companies you mentioned both single handed and spey. They are all great rods that I feel have been produced to be a sturdy rod with a lot of quality control going into the production of each rod. The only problem I have had is with one rod, the maker. SAGE! Does this say anything about sages rods NO!! they make great rods but sometimes S___ happens. They fixed the problem no questions asked. And it in no way effects my thoughts on sage rods. I think they are GREAT! I dont think its fair of you to put up some manufacturers names and say you will break 10 of there rods to 1 sage. A statement like that can really influence someone who is thinking of buying a certain brand of rod. Maybe they will shy away from that brand when in reality one of that companies rods may in fact be more to there liking or fit there style more than a "higher priced ""higher quality control"" rod. Im sorry but I dont feel your statement is appropriate nor do I see a shred of evidence to back your 10 to 1 claim. Kevin
  10. Steelie Mike Active Member

    Posts: 1,600
    Camas, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    Taper this:



    Since I know Tim and the guys who do the quality control, I think your talking out of your ass. And I have landed many steelhead with them this year. Tim just got back from tarpon fishing in Mexico. I wonder how many rods he broke?

    Fred, I owe you another drift for this one,
  11. TallFlyGuy Adipossessed!

    Posts: 870
    Vancouver, WA.
    Ratings: +45 / 0

    LOL, finally someone gets Mikee riled up a little...I love it. Been trying for years. Just gotta mess with his rods, and WHAM, He is PISSED. Gotta love it!
  12. Flyborg Active Member

    Posts: 2,313
    Kalama, WA
    Ratings: +604 / 0
    Bleh, the notion that quality imports break more than white-collar domestic rods is kind of preposterous, if only from a design standpoint.

    High end rods utilize higher modulus graphite, which in turn allows the manufacturer to use less material and achieve the same stiffness. This is why high end rods weigh less and have that "crisp" feeling. The downside is that with less material, you have less durability. If you've ever nailed a GLX with a Clouser Minnow on a double haul with the wind at your back, you know exactly what I'm talking about.

    Many high end rod manufacturers have also taken to using graphite scrims to further reduce weight. Originally Loomis was the only one doing this (with GLX), until several other manufacturers caught on. Graphite scrims, simply put, don't give you as much hoop support as a glass scrim will.

    Lower end rod companies utilize mostly 36-42 million modulus IM6 material for rod building. Many imported rods actually have a mix of materials in order to maximize the benefits of higher and lower modulus where it's needed in the rod blank. IM6 is a workhorse material as it is easy to use in manufacturing. Higher modulus graphites are more fickle and difficult to work with, and create more scrap in the cooking process (high modulus=twisting) and the sanding process (again, less material = less room for error when manually sanding away cellophane marks). That being said, the domestic manufacturers have a lot more to deal with in terms of "quality control" with high-end rods than the imports do with im6 material. Some of the domestics do a great job with quality control, but any fly shop owner can tell you that all manufacturers slip up in that department, regardless of where the rods are made.

    Quality is a ultimately subjective standard, and we each have our own way of measuring it. Just keep in mind that it's entirely possible to build two rods with the same action and power using low and high modulus material. Weighing less doesn't necessarily equate to a better action. The fact that every rod designer has a different idea on what makes a good rod "feel" good is ultimately what we're buying into--how does their design fit my idea of a good rod? And to bring it back to the original post--beyond the rods performance, good service is the icing on the cake we're all eating here. Sage has long been a cornerstone of the fly rod industry and it's good to hear that they're continuing to provide good service and good products.
  13. Christian Brewer Super Slacker

    Posts: 354
    Slacking in Mill Creek
    Ratings: +17 / 0
    Fred your customer service thread definitely was hijacked!!! :rofl: :rolleyes: :rofl:

    I too have had excellent customer service from Sage. I can't believe how nice and easy they are to deal with and how well informed they are with your individual repair/replacement status. I have had a few issues with some of my other rods from different manufacturers (no names mentioned but they are American companies with high end spey rods and single hand rods rolled in the USA) that have no where near the level of service from them that Sage provides. Sage is also very timely with their repairs/replacements unlike most of the others.

    With that being said...I have also had great customer service from G.Loomis. New rod to the house...old broken rod back to the factory + $50 or what ever the expeditor charge is w/ no questions asked.

    Christian
  14. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,123
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +123 / 0
    There may some question between 'asked for, and what's available.' 'Nice lady on the phone' said the rod was a 12-6 7wt 2-hander, but when I look up the Redington rods on line, the shortest I see is a 13-3. I'll keep you guys posted when the 'new toy' hits the door step.

    Fred
  15. Matt Paluch Member

    Posts: 261
    Moses Lake, WA
    Ratings: +24 / 0
    I don't want to hijak Fred's thread... I'll start a new one.
  16. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,123
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +123 / 0
    Only a fool would refuse an offer like that!!
    :beer2: :thumb:

    Fred
  17. Red Shed "junkyard spey"

    Posts: 517
    Peck, ID
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Sage/Redington's customer is top of the line as is Loomis' but it is no better nor faster than Echo's, Beulah's or TFO's.

    I believe the statement that high end sticks break less then those of lower price points to be complete nonsense. More then 90%+ of rod breakage is caused by user error which has nothing to do with anyone's quality control.

    I'm glad your getting a new stick Fred. Thanks for the report.:thumb:
  18. halcyon Hallelujah, I'm a Bum!!!

    Posts: 491
    Vancouver, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Fred meant "kudos" but he is lousy at Greek :p And of course "kudos" is the singular whereas if he had meant more than one accolade it would be "kudo" which is the created plural form:rofl:

    Regards,
  19. Red Shed "junkyard spey"

    Posts: 517
    Peck, ID
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Kadoo's, That's Rogue River talk for "way cool service, thanks a bunch!".
  20. Preston Active Member

    Posts: 2,487
    .
    Ratings: +474 / 0
    Kudos comes from the Greek singular noun kydos. In spite of the fact that a well-known fly fishing magazine sponsored "kudo" awards a few years ago most usage guides warn against the unwarranted back-formation to a supposedly singular form from a word that is already singular. Personally, I think that the editor who came up with the "kudo" award (or allowed it) should have had his blue pencil confiscated and been put to work correcting high school term papers.