Lenore Poachers Get Theirs

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by miyawaki, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. Dipnet

    Dipnet The wanted posters say Tim Hartman

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    Hey man, thanks for the reply.

    While I too know you are entitled to your own opinion, I respectfully disagree with the idea of sacrificing a human life for that of any other sort of creature (unless it's self-sacrifice and that's a different ethical/philosophical matter entirely!).

    But I don't want to sidetrack this thread by arguing opinion and philosophy so "back to your regularly scheduled show!" ;)

    Tight lines, Alex!
     
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  2. Dipnet

    Dipnet The wanted posters say Tim Hartman

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    I totally agree with what you said here!
     
  3. tkww

    tkww Member

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    Well it seems we're on that track. Just a few billion more people and there won't be many creatures left. I digress: the phrasing of "sacrificing a human life" seems to suggest something done by someone else. Willfully ending the lives of these criminals would absolutely be inappropriate. However, should one of them choose a series of actions which leads to their own death--i.e., swimming out into cold water in the middle of the night--rather than face the law, that is hardly "sacrificing" in the sense of someone else causing it. That is simply a person making a series of bad decisions. We can debate the appropriateness of wishing for one outcome or another, but there needs to be a clear distinction between "If they died as a result of their actions, ________________" and "They should die/be dead for what they did." Those are very different sentiments with very different ramifications.
     
  4. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    When a piece of garbage makes a choice to involve himself in a crime, and furthers that choice in causing his own death, its not a "sacrifice", its a poor decision made by a piece of crap, that we are all better off without.
     
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  5. dbk

    dbk Active Member

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    If we did really know them for who they actually are, as opposed to who we percieve them to be, we would never say things like this...... the irony of course being when we don't know someone, that is when we we claim to know all that which is necessary to know. Those that claim to see everything about a person do not see what is really there because if they did, they would not make such claims in the first place.....

    I appreciate the compliment by the way - you can call me Francis any time :)
     
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  6. dbk

    dbk Active Member

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    Quite the contrary- we cannot walk in their shoes and yet all the comments about who they are and what they deserve would suggest that we have walked in their shoes since we "know" them so well.... Just because we know what they did wrong does not mean we know who they are..... We are all in trouble if our personal identity as human beings is reducible to what we have done wrong in our lives. Thankfully, its not..... no matter how often we want to categorize each other in this way because its easier to do this than face ourselves and our motives for judging each other in the ways that we do.

    True empathy does not demand someone to be deserving of it, but recognizes they are not and yet its offered anyway.
     
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  7. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

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    There's a huge disconnect here. I don't care who they are...or what justification you can apply. What we percieve them to be is exactly what they have proven themselves to be!!! They made choices and acted on those choices. Dry your eyes man, they CHOSE to deserve ZERO forgiveness from you or me.
     
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  8. Jim Wallace

    Jim Wallace Smells like low tide

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    Sounds to me like you are trying to rationalize your inability to distinguish right from wrong. I don't feel any empathy at all for poachers, thieves, burglars, violent criminals, murderers, thugs, rapists, pimps, human traffickers, criminal Wall Street Banksters, and other predatory a-holes. They gave up their rights to deserve any empathy when they made their wrong choices. I don't feel any need to understand those types. I don't need to know who they are, and I don't want to know them. I just want to see 'em arrested, prosecuted, & not let off the hook. There's nothing complex that needs to be understood. Fear of getting caught and being prosecuted is the only thing that keeps some people "honest.":mad:
     
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  9. Stonefish

    Stonefish Triploid, Humpy & Seaplane Hater

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    I believe in the separation of church and flyfishing.......
     
  10. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

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    But it is my church.
     
  11. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    I don't waste my empathy on garbage. And I don't cut anyone slack. They KNEW what they were doing was wrong, and they did it anyway. Fuck `em.
     
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  12. teedub

    teedub Active Member

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    Alex, I drive you to the ceremony and pay for the gas!
     
  13. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Sounds like the only way these guys might have been able to read signs is if they were in Russian.

    K
     
  14. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Behavior and consequences, that is all it is. If bad behavior (illegal activity) has sufficiently painful consequences attached to it, the likelihood of repeating the bad (illegal) behavior is reduced. If the bad behavior results in another bad choice that results in death, well, that is not my responsibility nor do I wish it to be otherwise unless it is a kid that dies. I've done some really stupid things in my life and knowingly did them. I also accept, totally, any and all consequences for my behavior. And I will hold everyone else responsible for their behavior. There is a very definite difference between reasons for doing something and excuses for doing it.
     
  15. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Let's take a timeout from all this blather about whether poachers should be publicly drawn and quartered and step back for a reality check. The fact of the matter is that cooler heads than some of ours have wisely decided that poaching fish is not a capital crime, nor should it be.

    Here's what we know. Four Russian perps get busted for poaching fish, possibly to sell to be prepared as an immigrant delicacy. Aside from the guy who went for a cold swim, nobody died, nobody was injured, nobody's property was destroyed. After being detained for no more than a day or two, they were probably released on their own recognizance, especially if they had a clean record. (It's also worth remembering this is Grant County, one of the poorest in Washington, and which doesn't even have it's own prosecuting attorney and can ill afford to keep these guys in jail for any length of time, especially since there was no loss of life involved.)

    Yes, a late model Toyota pickup was seized. But unless it was owned outright, it will likely be returned to the bank holding the lien on the title, who will in turn return it to the owner to continue making payments (which is probably more than the bank would realize if they sold it outright.)

    Here's the probable outcome. The perps will eventually have their day in court, but again, this is Grant County where the wheels of justice aren't heavily lubricated by tax dollars. Since they're not being charged with a crime against people or property, the judge is quite unlikely to impose the death penalty.

    Instead the perps will be charged a nominal fine which they won't have to pay immediately, will receive no jail time or even probation. SInce they're Russians with selective command and comprehension of the English language, they'll pick and choose which of the terms of their sentence they will comply with, citing a lack of understanding if challenged later.

    At yesterday's IFPAG meeting, someone asked the officer representing the enforcement division about recidivism after poachers are (rarely) caught, charged and sentenced. His answer is that most of the time, folks don't make the same mistake again. I wish I could say I was so optimistic.

    K
     
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  16. Olive bugger

    Olive bugger Active Member

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    Stories like this remind me why our forefathers use the term
    TAR AND FEATHERS. It would seem to fit here.

    I know, I know, I am just another compassionate guy with a pack load of mercy....
     
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  17. zen leecher aka bill w

    zen leecher aka bill w born to work, forced to fish

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    The signs at Lenore are in Russian, Spanish and English for those that take the time to read them. Need a sign there in one more language - Smith and Wesson.
     
  18. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    these signs should have been illuminated by lights, especially during late hours of darkness. If these signs were visible, a tragedy like this would never happen....it is our fault these things keep happening. ;)
     
  19. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    This is what happens when you can no longer spank your children, I cannot be held responsible for my actions so there for I shall act irresponsible..
     
  20. dbk

    dbk Active Member

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    irony again being you are treating them with the same diregard that they treated the fish.. arguably, even more so.
     
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