Lenore Poachers Get Theirs

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by miyawaki, Apr 10, 2013.

  1. If you bought a fishing license in WA then these guys were stealing from you personally. That shows how much regard they have for you - personally. But, in the spirit of forgiveness I would suggest that you drive over there, give them a group hug, then give them your address and a key to your home...you know just be a wonderful human being to them and I'm sure they will respond in a positive way and enrich your existence with reciprocal kindness.

    ...peace man...
    wolverine and triploidjunkie like this.
  2. No they didn't.... no one person owns the lake, the fish, the resource we want to protect and preserve, which is a good thing, but if it comes at the cost of sacrificing a basic sense of respect for human dignity and compassion, then its not worth it. Someone showing no regard for me (if that is how you interpret it) does not give me a right to show no regard for them.... to identify them as "scum, garbage", etc... and then treat them as such. Forgiveness and compassion does not mean you enable others to persist in bad behavior, but through it we can help each other to live in a way that supports not simply MY good, but the good of everyone... the common good. Because if its not about that, then its about me and my interests alone.. it becomes personal in a way that enables people to feel they are justified in doing to others what they perceived was first done to them... which appears to be what has happened here. The lack of regard for these men as human beings, and the absence of any sense of compassion or basic human respect in so many of these posts is much more troubling than the crime these men committed.
    dfl, Irafly and Kent Lufkin like this.
  3. I would welcome anybody to move over to Ephrata and open a local mission for the recovery of hardcore poachers. We shall call it the "Church of the Discarded Nets" or something of that "line".

    I would recommend that the services be multi-lingual.
  4. The lake, the fish, the parking lot, the boat launch, etc. were/are built, maintained, stocked, whatever with the funds from your license fees as well as mine. They robbed you, me, and everybody else that bought/supported the fishery. The law prescribes a penalty for that.

    I wasn't a party to all this disrespect you mention, I merely suggested that you back up your rhetoric with some action - drive over there and turn the other cheek brother.
    Bill Aubrey likes this.
  5. Jerks who commit crimes willingly give-up their "human dignity" with the decision to do so and forfeit any right to compassion from others, myself included. I suppose that if you were on Lenore in a boat that you would have saved the fleeing "fisherman" like anyone else would have. Would you have then helped him to escape (assuming that he didn't toss you out of your boat & continue his escape unencumbered)? Had this group broken into your house, would you still be as compassionate?
  6. Apart from an initial reply praising the fine officers who apprehended these guys, who have apparently been breaking a law that we find important (while many others in our society could care less about), I haven't had much to say.

    However, I do want to offer a mild rebuke to many of you who have replied, not in defense of the criminals who were caught in the act, but for your responses to dbk. I would urge all of you to take a deep breath and go back over his posts. It may not teach you the true meaning of empathy and compassion, but it will at least expose you to it in a genuine and thoughtful manner.

    Anyone who says (I'm lookin' at you Alex, as someone who often has good things to contribute here) "I reserve my empathy for..." doesn't understand the concept of 'empathy.'

    Irafly and Kent Lufkin like this.

  7. I don't find the treatment as irony. Reactionary perhaps but not ironic. I am still trying to find something about these guys that deserves my empathy. I have no life experiences that I can draw upon to feel empaty towards them. I seem to be unable to reach into the emotions needed to be a poacher. Without this basic understanding of what drove these individuals to poach at this level I cannot feel any empathy towards them. Having said that I think public flogging might be a compasionate punishment. Certainly more compassion then they showed the resource and the law.
    Ron Eagle Elk likes this.
  8. So? What you think of me doesn't concern me in the least. You clearly place more value on humans than anything else. A combat tour or two in southeast Asia will cure you of that rubbish. As I wrote earlier, humans aren't on an "endangered" list. We can stand to lose a few and I won't shed any tears, the planet will be better off, and the rest of us will have just that more in the way of resources. And before you go the way of whining about "what if that were you?", plenty of losers have tried that route; they're dead, and I'm still here. I haven't shed any tears over them either. I treat the fish with more regard than I treat criminals. So you might as well stop being an apologist for the losers of society; they have no redeeming value.

    Dick, you and I will have to disagree here: regarding sympathy and empathy, my sense of these was honed in some really nasty conflicts; I gave at the "office" years ago, and reserve what little I have left for people who truly deserve it. It's my opinion of course, but I feel this nation gives way too much of both to criminals, and way too little to their victims. Some gang-banger gets capped in Seattle, and the first thing you read in the papers is "what a tragedy; he was just beginning to turn his life around!". I read that, and think "bullshit; one less piece of human garbage!
  9. Alex, Thank you for stating so well exactly what I was thinking.
    Alex MacDonald likes this.
  10. whatever.
  11. The solution is background checks. . .

    Islander likes this.
  12. DBK,

    It's your prerogative to regard posters lack of sympathy and empathy however you wish, but assuming it's positive outcomes we're after - you do seek a positive outcome, don't you? - what is your prescription that leads to the outcome where these four men never poach the public commons again? We know lethal force prevents (and precludes) recidivism, but what compassionate, sympathetic, and empathetic alternative do you have that produces an equivalent outcome?

    Alex MacDonald likes this.
  13. That is what makes empathy such a gift - it cannot be deserved and is not predicated upon what I have done or failed to do- it is simply is offered out concern for another's good and well being, especially when their actions seem to give us a justification for saying they (their life) does not matter anymore because of what they did... True empathy will hold others accountable without "writing them off" as garbage to simply be thrown away, but a person who is capable of changing, being redeemed in a sense to live in accord with the common good that pertains to all of us as human beings living together in this world, whether we like it or not.

    In this regard, its only when we experience that empathy from another that we "see" it and realize our capacity for offering it to others. When I have hurt others deeply through actions that showed such a disregard for them in different ways, while not criminal, it was through the gift of empathy showed towards me by the people I hurt deeply which "freed" me to see a good in them I could not see before... it opened my eyes to the well-being of someone else as a priority, which in turn helped me to see that the good of who I am is fulfilled only in responding to the good of others. That is why love, compassion, empathy is difficult because it requires us to sacrifice of ourselves for the good of another and is something we "learn" or receive only when that gift is first freely offered to us by another... especially when we do not "deserve" it.. Because in truth, we never will. All of us through our actions have hurt others and been hurt by the actions of others and the only way out of that cycle of abuse, hatred, anger, self-centeredness, etc. is love, mercy, compassion and empathy. And if that is not first shown towards us by another, there is no way for us to see our capacity for it within ourselves. That is why it is such a beautiful gift that we are so often unable to see - it cannot come from ourselves or be discovered in an understanding of other people's motives for doing what they do. And if we are looking there for it, we will never find it. The cost of true love where empathy is discovered comes at a very high price, yet is available to all who are willing to accept it. That is a choice nobody can make for us... if we don't, then our only choice then is to "push back" and keep fighting the abusive actions of others by "giving it back" to those who in our eyes are "deserving" to be treated as human garbage, scum. Most especially ourselves, because if we cannot see the good of another person (no matter what they have done), then we will never see the good in ourselves and what we truly are capable of as human beings - which is to love not simply our friends, but our enemies as well.....
    Irafly likes this.
  14. preachy? this is proselytizing. just cue the organ and turn down the lights. please get this weirdness over with so we can exit to the lobby talk about something real!
    wolverine and Alex MacDonald like this.
  15. Put 'em under the Sword......then there will be room for forgiveness....you can take your empathy, and please shove it as far up a Criminals @ss as is possible.

    Fact of the matter is this, in the end the outcome will be a small fine, half or all of these guys will not even show up for court anyways. The only reason they even got caught is because they allready got 200-400 fish prior, making people suspicious, thats this year alone. Russians are like Locusts, call it culture, call it what ever the Fk you want, they take and destroy all public resources they encounter until its gone, then move on to the next one. While poachers come in many shades and colors, its Russians, that as a group, conspire and organize to subvert and exploit every resource they encounter for thier own gain until its gone.
    It is what it is.
  16. Wow...!

    This is your brain on drugs.

  17. Do you expect me to read through this quantity of verbal diarrhea and come away with something resembling empathy? Well, my empathy level for criminals or even other people hasn’t gone up because of your barely comprehendible disgorgement of crapola. Are you kidding? Do you really believe this stuff? You come across as someone who has led a very cosseted life.

    I don’t know your life experiences but I am fairly confident they do not parallel mine. I am not far enough away from the street in mind, time or distance to feel anything like you suggest. There is another side to our society that many do not see and could not comprehend. It is raw, brutal, unemotional, unforgiving and, can be absolutely deadly. Human beings wreck incomprehensible havoc on other human beings relentlessly without as much as a thought. The level of which would give most nightmares for weeks if not forever. Spend some time living the streets of your own society, come back to me afterwards and ask for my empathy. Alex mentioned SE Asia. Take a hard look at what he what he was referring to. There is a side of humanity that cares little for empathy or any other “normal” human emotion. You are nothing more that another bag of excrement to them; something to be wiped off the bottom of their boot with an expression of disgust. I have no love for my enemies………..period. I wish them only ruin as they do me.
    wolverine and Alex MacDonald like this.
  18. SPOT ON!
  19. Oh, he wants us to love our enemies; I didn't love `em; I shot the fuckers. If they moved, I shot `em again. The only thing I felt upon squeezing the trigger of my M-40A1, was recoil, not empathy. Bottom line, DBK, is that you clearly haven't encountered real evil anywhere in your life; if you had, you'd either have learned enough to not spout this gibberish, or you'd be dead.

    What gives me nightmares even today, is the indescribable horror these gomers visited upon innocent human beings. I volunteered to go hunt these individuals, who to everyone who encountered them, were decidedly NOT human. There was NO good in them whatsoever. May you never encounter things like that. I have. I still get up each morning and go take a piss; they don't. So upon further reflection, I'm not really mean, or mean-spirited, or any of the other things "progressive thinkers" like to label me; I have as much empathy for them as I would for a clay pigeon that just left the launcher.
    wolverine, gearhead, jersey and 3 others like this.
  20. Kumbaya....new name for the hijacked thread
    Alex MacDonald likes this.

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