NFR LOL government in a nutshell

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Evan Virnoche, Oct 4, 2013.

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  1. Kaiserman

    Kaiserman Phil 4:11-13

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    Aren't you going to get paid for your time off, after you return to work? I'm sure it sucks and all, but at least you'll get paid for this time. Heck, look at it as a "delayed" vacation and going fishing! :)
     
  2. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Some of us independents would say the current House Tea Party hostage crisis is a tantrum reacting to legislation that is imperfect if not crap, but was passed democratically, implicitly approved by voters in the 2012 election, and deemed constitutional by a mostly conservative SCOTUS. It's a done deal for now. Wait until 2014 or 2016 and maybe the balance of power will shift and the law can be changed or repealed on its own without being tied to our nation's debt servicing and other unrelated issues. SteveA makes a great point above about the current situation setting up a potentially damaging precedent in which a well-organized minority in the legislature can hold the democratic process hostage. It's bad for everyone.

    And by the way, just because people disagree with you doesn't make them liberal. They might be Reagan conservatives who haven't budged much since the 1980's while the rest of the GOP has plunged so far right they've fallen off the edge of their flat earth and into the twilight zone.
     
  3. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    At the time I posted this, no. That was voted upon this morning. Once they voted to pay those who had to stay home thru all this, there was a quick response of "well why should I go to work at all then on Monday?" By those who have been required to go to work for free. Then just saw a few ninutes ago that all of us are being recalled Monday. apparently its been decided by the powers that be that the same act that protects military pay during a shutdown also protects those whose jobs support the military. Its great news for my house and my whole county really... but I do have mixed emotions.

     
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  4. Kaiserman

    Kaiserman Phil 4:11-13

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    Glad to hear that Nick. I'm sure (regardless of which party they support), others understand your mixed feelings.


    Though I wholeheartedly agree with you on your first statement, the second one is, well... just wrong.

    http://www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htm

    Now, if you were to say "Our deficit is accumulating at a slower rate in the past five years, than it has in previous years.", that would be a more accurate way of stating it. Or, "We're sinking, just not as fast as we were five years ago." ... but we're still sinking.

    Here's the interesting thing: Look at who has been in control of the House of Representatives during our nations fastest debt growth, and compare that to who's been in control of the House during it's decline. Remember, it's the House who sets (writes it into law) the budget.
     
  5. Kaiserman

    Kaiserman Phil 4:11-13

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    Oh, and I forgot to mention that our decline in the Iraq/Afghanistan wars over the past few years declines our spending a lot... a whole lot.

    Not to mention that we haven't actually had a budget passed since Obama's been in office. Not that it's his fault, but when the Democrats controlled the House his first two years, why didn't they pass one then?

    There's blame to go around for everyone on that one!
     
  6. Jamie Wilson

    Jamie Wilson Active Member

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    No - I just wasn't sure where you were going with the "not supported by the majority of Americans" piece. The ACA was a major topic in the last election. The guy it's named after won. The Supreme Court upheld its constitutionality. Some people don't like it - I'm assuming one of them is you. My guess is you are pretty well set up - probably from working hard and getting a good education. Bank account, really nice health plan.
    There are at least 50 to 60 million people unlike you. Lot's of them support it.
    We're not going backwards here unless of course there is another plan out there.
     
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  7. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    So going forward to you means redistributing one persons hard work to others? As I suggested above and see clearly by the obvious avoidance to answer the question...feel confident enough to put the current AHCA to a vote of the people? Also unanswered is how applying the same rules to everyone is such an affront to programs supporters?
     
  8. jessejames

    jessejames Flyslinger

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    I support the AHCA and for a lot of reasons I think it did not go far enough. I think a single payer plan similar to Medicare would have been much better. The FACTS prove that Medicare has the lowest overhead of any health insurance system and has been working effectively for a long time.
    Let me give you just one reason I favor universal health care.
    Scenario;
    ABC Machine works is a national company with a health plan for it's employees they make fribbets on CNC machines which doesn't take much creativity. But at 12.50 per hour and health care it is a safe job for a lot of family type guys. No risk, no future but a job.
    XYZ Machine works is a creative dynamic small business. They are creating, inventing and manufacturing cutting edge product for the health industry. Because of their size and growth curve they are unable to provide health insurance to their employees. They are able to pay a buck more and hour and maybe some profit sharing. This is a job I would choose but with a family and health issues there is no way I can risk it.
    If the USA had universal health care the playing field would be level employees could choose their jobs without thought of the insurance issues. I believe it would increase job opportunities, creativity and production.
    I already know of two couples (yeah I know small sampling data) who are quitting their jobs, with insurance, and starting their own businesses because they can get affordable health insurance without restrictions because of AHCA.
    I think there is enough money out ther in the insurance plans that are existing to fund a single payer plan. Would it be comfortable or popular NO but it would be good for the nation.
    jesse a liberal in sheep's clothing.
     
  9. Jamie Wilson

    Jamie Wilson Active Member

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    Jesse - this is opening the door - thankfully
     
  10. Jamie Wilson

    Jamie Wilson Active Member

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  11. jessejames

    jessejames Flyslinger

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    Nick I am glad you are going back to work and I am sorry that I was part of derailing this topic.

    jesse
     
  12. Jamie Wilson

    Jamie Wilson Active Member

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    you didn't derail anything
    I'll give you an assist:cool:
     
  13. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Given my haste in posting from my phone... That was essentially what I meant to say. Looking back at my post, it was definitely misleading.
     
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  14. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    Its great that the furlough is over here. It just leaves an odd taste in my mouth. I know we are all pawns in this, but it feels like we were in a truer sense. Its a scary feeling to know they can snap their fingers and become our masters so quickly. At least, that's how it feels when you can be told to work for maybes.
     
  15. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    Had to work last week due to being designated an essential employee and worked without pay but did not sweat it. I went through the same in 1995.

    Quite a bit of extra admin work to get back pay that will take away from my work this week. Lessoned learned is always keep a min of 3 months living expenses put aside (6 is better) and don't live beyond your means. Amazed number of people who live pay check to pay check and buy or lease new vehicles every few years, go on exotic vacations, max out multiple credit cards and go out to eat a few times a week. I make a decent living but have always bought used vehicles and bring my lunch to work.

    I am more concerned with interests rates going up and their effect on the economy and looming inflation. The debt can only be monetized for so long and we are way past due. Expect more cuts and lean times a head. And once again watch self serving politicians line up sound bites and attempt to manipulate the populace
     
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  16. cuponoodle breakfast

    cuponoodle breakfast Active Member

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    I shouldn't even go there. One of my biggest pet peeves is people spending themselves into the poor house and then bitching about how hard it is to make ends meet. They don't want to hear that the RV payment, boat payment, truck payment, motorcycle payment, delux TV package etc. might be the problem.
     
  17. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    Are we not doing that now? Think of all those millions of visits to the ER each year, all the baby deliveries, etc. with non-insured patients. Those bills are being paid somehow....maybe they are being paid by the hardworking people paying their taxes, which seem to go up annually? Yep! Maybe hard working people are paying those bills when buying their own health insurance but receive higher insurance premiums every year, with reduced benefits each year? Yep! Maybe the hard worker who's employer tells him every year..."sorry no raise and we also need you to pay a bigger percentage for your medical" ..Yep! (Because I have not heard any one claim that their employer decided to pay more in to their health coverage)..Just maybe a lot of the hard working people are finding it harder to get by and this program offers some hope? Remember you don't have to join, you can buy your own, and also remember TP Republicans lie!!!!! ;) Take it the house and vote! This is not a program that will ruin the nation, but the cowardly actions of Boehner and others can ruin this nation! :mad:

    http://america.aljazeera.com/articl...obamacareposterchildturnsouttolikethelaw.html
     
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  18. Robert Easterday

    Robert Easterday Member

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    There are lots more of us who think the same way. In the mean time, the claim that AHCA is some plot to redistribute wealth to lazy poor folk is Koch Bros propaganda. I spent my teaching career in poor rural communities and still marvel how much luck as well as will power it takes to break out of that cycle of family poverty. Lack of affordable health care is a huge impediment and probably the one that's most easily removed.
     
  19. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    My wife and I go to Ross lake resort every year with her family, there are usually 16 to 19 of us. We rent a couple bunk houses, eat, drink, play cards and do a little fishing. We have been doing it for years and it's a blast. Well this year is a no-go, because of the government shut down the resort is closed.
     
  20. Kaiserman

    Kaiserman Phil 4:11-13

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    Don't worry Jesse. In five to ten years, when the AHCA nears failure financially, we'll have it. I don't really care where someone stands on this healthcare situation, it's written to fail. According to Obama and the Democratic Party, we need to have some ridiculous number of young people sign up for it in the first year, otherwise it financially won't hold up. Thus, we'll just usher in a single payer system. http://washingtonexaminer.com/canad...-troubled-obamacare-exchanges/article/2536805 Notice that they (the tech company in the article) are the ones that run/operate the program for the single payer system in Canada.

    The reason it's going to fail, is because you can either sign up (at roughly a $100 - $300+ a month), or take a $96 penalty fee (tax) the first year, $325 the next,.. That's per year, not monthly.

    Here's the breakdown, copied from the site:

    2014 = $95 per person per year or 1% of your Income
    2015 = $325 per person per year or 2% of your Income
    2016 = $695 per person per year or 2.5% of your Income
    2017 = Tax Penalty will increase by the rate of inflation going forward, or 2.5% of your Income

    What do you think the young Americans are going to do? Sign up for the new Verizon data plan, or AHC? It's a no-brainer for them. Especially after they figure out that they really don't have to, because of the preexisting condition clause.

    Someone might say, "Sure, but you won't be covered in case of an accident!" Nope. Under the AHCA, you can't be denied coverage for preexisting conditions. Meaning, you can get in a car wreck, then sign up. Don't believe me? Read it - http://obamacarefacts.com/obamahealthcare-summary.php

    Again, I don't care where someone stands on this issue. But this thing (as it is written), won't survive. But it is written with the "transition" in mind, for a single payer system, but you have to read it to see it. Yes, it's boring...but very eye opening - probably for folks on "both sides of the isle".

    By the way... Why are we "outsourcing" $ 1,400,000,000 (1.4 billion) to a Canadian company to write this AHCA program? Isn't there at least 10 software companies here in the US that could have written the program? That could have put a few folks back to work for sure. And God knows we have enough lawyers in this country that could be put to some use, other than chasing ambulances! :p Just say'n
     
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