loomis trilogy spey rods?

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by bankwalker, Dec 17, 2007.

  1. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    lol well i excell at everything within a couple days.

    its funny actually i can spey cast my 8wt single hand rod just as far as i can this 13ft spey rod...kinda sucks if you ask me.

    ive had a total of 11 hours with this rod in my hand now and still cant cast it for shit.

    it only took me half and hour with my single hand rod to hit the same distance i can with a spey rod...hell i was roll casting a single hand rod better in that half an hour then alot of guys i know cast a single hand rod.

    ive got to play with a 6wt and 8wt z-acis switch rod, and a 7wt loomis switch rod and they are by far easier for me to spey cast then a true spey rod. so idk what everyone talks about when they say they are hard to cast if you dont know how to spey cast...???

    either way im gonna keep at it, i know i will get it in a few more days of practice. its a pain though then every other aspect of casting a fly has came extremely easy for me.

    its not normal when i have had a fractured wrist for almost a year now with out if being fixed and i can still cast my single hand farther (with that fractured wrist) then i can a spey rod. thats just not right...when i already have what 50ftof line already out of the rod to load of that damn spey rod. LMFAO :rofl:

    you guys are great and all the info is taking very seriously. and its much needed. and when i finally get it down ill have to take a video for all to see lol...actually ill take one on my next outing so you all can get a good laugh :D
  2. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
    Ratings: +23 / 0
    I'm taking a break from being a jerk, so I’m going to relate this the best way I can. Your apparent natural ability to excel at casting is suspect to me. You stated earlier that you were out casting your buddy (who had been flyfishing for 20 yrs) within an hour, or something like that. In my mind, this is impossible. Sure you can have a natural ability to be a good caster, but experience and practice is the only thing that can make you as great as you sound. So either your buddy is like 90, or he has flyfished 10 times in those twenty years. I'm not saying you don't have a natural ability to cast, just that you seem to have set yourself up for failure via unrealistic expectations.... hence the spey rod. I think many who have been at this for awhile will agree on this: I've been casting for 25 years and am still not a great caster. I have a lot to learn. If I thought I had figured it all out, there wouldn't be any need to go on, which is what flyfishing so alluring and exciting. Perhaps flyfishing is not a big enough challenge for you. Maybe long bow hunting?:confused: I'm not calling you out, I'm just trying to make sense of your words and stated conflict.:)
  3. Kevin Giusti New Member

    Posts: 216
    Fort Bragg,Ca
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I agree with panhandle. Ive been flyfishing for quite a few years and while I consider myself an OK caster I am by NO MEANS an expert, nor will I ever be!! I constantly try to improve my casting and am always learning, and hope to keep learning and improving forever. I thought I was a pretty good single hand caster until I learned to spey cast. Only then did I realize the true meaniing of LET THE ROD DO THE WORK! With a single hander you can kinda bang it out there and get a good amount of line out although it may not be a nice tight efficient and effortless cast. In spey casting it is essential to let the rod do the work. Two handed rods have a TON of power and the casters job is to make smooth movements throughout all parts of the casting stroke. Bring that rod and line through the correct paths and planes and there she goes, with little effort. The rod truly does the work. My single handed casting has improved GREATLY since learning spey casting. What line or style of line were you casting on the switch rod? I would suggest trying a similar style line on your spey. As far as tips its hard to say since I dont know the problems you are having as there are MANY that could be going on, spoken from personal experience. But in general I would say try to take your top hand out of the power application, the majority of the power on the forward stroke should be applied with the LOWER HAND. A nice smooth acceleration to a high stop using the lower hand predominatly. If you think you are using to much top hand lower your upper hand on the grip, this will force you to use your lower hand more may feel awkward but you may notice your casting improving. Another thing is video tape yourself casting. This allows you to see and notice things that you may not while casting.Anyway hope this helps and good luck. I think your first step should be facing the fact that even though you may be an ACE at picking up other things quickly in life that with spey casting you may have met your match. It may take you some time to figure this one out, as with the majority of people who have learned to spey cast. And it will certainly be a lifetime of learning. Kevin
  4. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    well i never once said i was an expert...now did i? no...all of you know damn well having a rod, reel, and line that are balanced goes a very very very very long way in the sport. i could pick up your rod and not cast if farther then a cat can fart. idk...i got a setup that i excelled with and stuck with it.

    i learned to cast a single hand rod very quicker. quicker then most of you would ever dream...casting a fly rod is 90% timing plain and simple. you can know every little aspect of casting a fly rod. but if you dont have timing youll never get that fly past your feet.

    my problem is that when casting a single hand rod has came so easy. it sucks to get a spey rod and suck at it. and it really sucks when i can still use my single hand rod and out cast my spey casts...thats bullshit too me. it should be the other way around. i mean i already have 50ft of line out of the spey rod.

    weather anyone believes me or not. i really dont care. i guess you will have to run into me on the river and put me to the test :thumb: i wont disapoint.

    now then if you want to give me tips then bring them on. if you are gonna bad mouth me when i am having a serious problem...then just dont post. you are helping me at all and just further adding to the stereotype of up tight asshole fly fisherman.

    like your mom always said if you cant say anything nice then dont say anything at all.
  5. Panhandle Active Member

    Posts: 4,103
    Selkirk Mountains, Idaho Panhandle
    Ratings: +23 / 0
    Come on dude, nobody is being mean here. In fact, if you read the posts without taking them personally, there is something to learn. That's the point, right? I mean, that's why you’re asking. Here, I'll make it quick and concise.

    You can outcast your spey with a single hander because you can't cast the spey rod. Nothing mysterious about that. Once you take the time to LEARN how to cast a 14 footer, like we've all had to do, then the opposite will be true. You seem inpatient and mad that you can't pick this thing up in 1 hour, which is absurd-- that's why I'm suggesting that something that takes time learn, may not be for you.
  6. Big Tuna Member

    Posts: 1,933
    Wenatchee, Washington
    Ratings: +36 / 0
    Sometimes I feel like I enter the Twilight Zone when I read these posts. The spey therapy ain't working. Adam, thanks for your restraint; I'm losing mine. Bankwalker, sell the stick. Fishing a two-handed rod isn't for you. Anyone who needs to be cajoled into practicing for longer than 11 hrs. before giving up just doesn't have the patience or the stamina for a technical and humbling sport. Maybe the switch will give you the instant gratification. Best of luck.
  7. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,243
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +436 / 0
    panhandle ....being nice :cool:

    Bankwalker.....with regards to spey casting you might need to walk a little to learn it. Somethings may come quick...other things not so quick....but usually it is always the fault of the user, because i have seen the worst set-ups in spey still be launced out there by ones who knew what they were doing.....and it kills me after they throw out a 100feet plus and turn and say this set-up sucks :p:p:p It's not all science...:thumb:
  8. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    like i said in the beginning. i do not think spey is right for me...but i took everyones advice on everything and im keeping with it.

    im not a quitter...but come on. if you are use to learning shit fast and something comes along that you just can get the hang of and is taking ALOT longer to learn then any other thing you have tried. wouldnt you be a little bumbed...it seriously pisses me off.

    for one i have talked to every single fly shop in the area. they all recomended the line i have on my rod now...to learn with.

    WELL i used a 9wt line on the rod today and was actually able to cast the damn thing. so what does that tell me? absolutely nothing, cause using that heavy of a line on my rod does nothing but load my rod up extremely fast and really doesnt teach me ay form at all...i put my 7/8/9wt line back on and couldnt cast for crap again.

    i know i need to slow my rod down with the line i have to allow it to load up correctly and let the rod do the work. ive heard it from everyone.

    all i can say is step up and show me how...or at least loan me a line to learn with...cause obviously right now my setup is not setup good enough for me to learn.

    i bet almost all of you guys could pick up my rod and cast it a mile...but i sure in the hell cant.

    and as far as me not being able to out cast my spey rod with a single hand cause i cant cast a spey rod??? what is that. of course i can outcast my spey rod with a single hand rod...cause i CANT cast a spey rod. IF i could cast a spey rod i wouldnt be saying i could out cast the damn thing lol

    actually today was a very productive day, i sat down and thought of all the advice everyone has gave me. went out and barrowed my buddies reel and his 9wt short belly line and was launching the line out there like i actually ALMOST knew what i was doing. it felt very good. i tried my best to let the rod do the work and all that good stuff. and i felt that after 30 minutes of casting i had it down enough to cast my 7/8/9 line but i was wrong.
  9. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    oh i know that...i never said it wasnt my fault. im sure its completely my fault i cant cast this setup. lol actually im 100% positive it is.
  10. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    actually one huge ting i did notice today is that when i have the black "load up point" of the line where it should be to load the rod correctly i just cant cast it.

    if i have all the black section reeled up into the reel so there is only say 40ft of line out. i can spey cast it just fine. line lays down nice and straight and everything. and then i will work out about 3ft after each cast.

    but as soon as i get that black section about half in the rod guides and half out of the rod...i just cant cast it.

    i know im more then likely way over thinking it, my timing is way off, and more then likely my D-loop looks more like a sagging tripple h (if you know what i mean lmfao). but i dont see how 10ft of line makes that much of a difference. SO i must be moving the rod to fast and not allowing it to load up correctly if i can shoot the line out with less line out then when i have the correct amount of line out.

    and thanks to everyone and the advice, it is coming along. and i know i will get it in due time. ALTHOUGH i do expect to learn this shiat quickly, i know it will take time. but im still gonna complain about it cause its my spey rod and i will do as i please lmfao.

    as far as anyone being mean. i know everyone is giving positive advice. i was only refurring to panhandle and him saying me outcasting someone who has been flyfishing for 20yrs after only a few minutes of casting a fly rod. you dont know me, you do not who my buddie, you have not seen me cast a single hand rod. just cause you have a bunch of experience does not mean you can cast a mile, or you have perfect form. i by no means have perfect form. but yes i can cast a single hand rod very far although it may look like crap. and yes it only took me a matter of minutes to learn to cast a fly rod that far. nothing is impossible buddie expect catching a steelhead in a jar of butter. ive tried that ish and it was harder then casting a spey rod.

    so i apologize for taking some things a little to seriously. well actually im taking alot of things seriously more so towards the great advice and help you all have givin me. its much apreciated :beer2:
  11. Kevin Giusti New Member

    Posts: 216
    Fort Bragg,Ca
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Yes ten feet CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE!!! If you find a sweet spot where the rod casts good for you, STICK WITH IT!!! The marks showing where the belly taper ends is just that A MARK!!! You dont need to have the mark outside the tip to make a good cast!!! As you progress and learn you will find you will be able to get that mark further toward the tip and even possibly outside the tip. So Ten feet does make a difference , hell even two or three feet can make a difference!!! With a scandi or skagit style line even SIX INCHES difference of overhang can make a WORLD OF DIFFERENCE@! So you learned something today, good for you. Find a comfortable length of line where you make a good cast and stick with that length. Kevin
  12. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0

    oh see i have been trying to cast this line with the black section about mid way in/out of the rod. which was recomended to me.

    i will have to put a mark in my line so i know where i should have my line.

    good ish...
  13. _WW_ Fishes with Wolves

    Posts: 1,823
    Skagit River
    Ratings: +570 / 0
    You mentioned making a video. Do it and then your cast can be properly analyzed by the rest of us. A picture is worth a thousand words so a video should bring on an entire book.
  14. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,286
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,387 / 0
    Bankwalker,

    I'm not like you, but I have had a similar experience. I was never above average at any sport or hand and eye coordination activity. However, when I learned to fly cast, it was like I had been born to be a fly fisherman. It came easy; it all made sense. Within a couple months of learning to fly cast, I was able to teach others to fly cast. What my point?

    Well, when I got my first, and then my second, two handed rods, it simply never occurred to me that I might need or benefit from some specialized instruction. After all, I'd been fly casting for decades, and people have always said I cast with style and grace and make it look effortless, which it practically is. Not so with the Spey rod. I've always been able to cast as far with single hand rods as with Spey rods. I putzed around with two handed rods for years and years before I finally decided that if I'm ever to enjoy this aspect of the sport, I ought to get some serious instruction.

    Well, it wasn't an overnight success, but close to it. Spey casting isn't anywhere as intuitive as single hand casting, yet exactly the same concepts and principles apply to it. By being mindful of the instruction I've had, and watching and listening to a couple Spey casting videos, my technique has improved 1000%. Yours could too. Just because other things came easy doesn't mean everything else will too.

    Sg
  15. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    yup its happens to the greatest.

    i missed the tolt spey class. it was to cold and windy so i didnt stop by. im gonna wait for thr 15th of january and check out creekside's class again sence ill be up there for the rest of the creek opening on tokul.
  16. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    i tried, my camera phone takes 30miutes videos. but you couldnt see shiat...

    though it looked funny. lol
  17. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,243
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +436 / 0
    Please ignore what I have said ....Didn't realize you were a memeber of the greatest...right? :confused: Really can't believe this thread has continued this long and the way it has.

    You can cast great :thumb:

    When is the last time you caught a fish? Did you catch it with 110 feet of fly line out there? :confused: :clown:
  18. bankwalker Member

    Posts: 385
    seattle
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    no one ever said i was the the greatest or even one of the greatest...you smartass.

    keep it to yourself.
  19. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,243
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +436 / 0
    I can't I so full of it I need to spread it..... and you seemed liked two pieces of open Rye :
  20. Porter Active Member

    Posts: 6,243
    Kenmore, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +436 / 0
    I'm so full of it and I easily spread on open Rye or Lye :confused: :clown:

    Get over yourself ;) As she and all her cousins said your no two hander ...stick with the small grip cork :D :rolleyes::rolleyes:

    I'm outta this thread :beer1: :beer1: :beer1: