Midpriced Trout Rods: Loop Multi vs Scott A2 vs Winston Vapor etc.

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by lotuseagle, Jun 12, 2008.

  1. lotuseagle

    lotuseagle New Member

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    Hey everyone. Pretty sure about the Loop Multi but just curious about opinions on these other mid-priced trout rods. Cast all but the Vapor. Unfortunately I've gotten hooked on some high end rods. Spoiled by the Sage XP and Z axis rods I've been borrowing for the last few years. Looking for a lot of bang for my buck in a 5 weight 8'6 or 9. Although recommended I didn't like the TFOs.

    I live in NY State and do alot of trout fishing up in the Catskills and on the Croton.

    Thanks all for your help and kindness.
     
  2. Itchy Dog

    Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

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    Midpriced Trput Rods: Loop Multi vs Scott A2 vs Winston Vapor etc.

    All I have are Sage rods. Different weights, price ranges and different actions, but I like them all. The Launch (4wt) is a real nice casting medium-fast stick for less than $200. I don't think it can be beat for price, quality and castability. FLi (6wt) is a faster action, right around $300. VPS (8wt) feels to me like a medium action. You might be able to find a gently used one - great rod. I also have a Z-Axis (4wt) that is my favorite, but as you know it's not mid-priced. There was a 5 wt for sale in the classifieds for $450 which is still a chunk of change, but a great buy.

    All depends on how they feel to you when you sample them.
     
  3. lotuseagle

    lotuseagle New Member

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    Midpriced Trput Rods: Loop Multi vs Scott A2 vs Winston Vapor etc.

    Honestly didn't love the fli. Had great hopes but was disappointed. Felt a bit stiff for me. Really enjoy their higher end rods though. Just took a friend's 4 wt z axis out last weekend and had a ton of fun with it. Suspect I should check out the launch. Not sure the VPS is a current model. Thanks for the tips.
     
  4. Capt. Awesome

    Capt. Awesome Member

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    Midpriced Trput Rods: Loop Multi vs Scott A2 vs Winston Vapor etc.

    I'm with you, I didn't care for the Fli either. I ended up with the A2 after test casting the Fli and Vapor. The Vapor is a pretty good rod- but for my casting style, I was able to push the A2 a bit further than the Vapor, which most of the time would end up folding. Someone with a more disciplined casting stroke could get more out of the Vapor than I can.

    I'll second the recommendation on the VPS, too. I should have pulled the trigger on the 8'6" 4 weight I was offered more than a year ago.
     
  5. Itchy Dog

    Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

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    Midpriced Trput Rods: Loop Multi vs Scott A2 vs Winston Vapor etc.

    You are correct- the VPS is not current. It was "replaced" by the VT2.
    If you didn't care for the stiffness of the FLi, check out the Launch.
     
  6. LG Mix

    LG Mix New Member

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    Midpriced Trput Rods: Loop Multi vs Scott A2 vs Winston Vapor etc.

    In February 2006 I tried some 6 wts one of which was the then top of the line Sage XP. I also cast a TFO TCr, a Scott A2 and an Echo II. I liked the $600 Sage the best. The TFO came close in casting but I didn't like the cosmetics. I was disappointed with the A2 and surprised by how much I liked the Echo. My point: consider the Echo II.
    -- Larry
     
  7. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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  8. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    So why not look for a used XP or Z Axis instead of paying full-boat retail for a new rod? The beauty of buying used is that you typically pay 50¢ or less on the dollar. Compared with buying a new rod for the same price, you'll be getting a much better rod instead of a compromise mid-priced new one.

    K
     
  9. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Well for one, you lose the warranty by buying used rods.
     
  10. SteelieD

    SteelieD Non Member

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    I have the A2 and the Vapor. I like 'em both, but prefer the A2.
     
  11. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Not true. If you've been following the warranty-no warranty debate over several dozen similar threads the past 3-4 years, you'd already know that warranties are a red herring.

    Here's why: First, many manufacturers charge a shipping and handling fee for warranty fixes. Some, like Thomas & Thomas are as high as $75. The only time I sent a rod back to Sage for a fix 4 years ago, the charge was $35.

    Second, many manufacturers (ie. Sage, Loomis) will repair a second-hand rod, often for the same nominal shipping and handling fee.

    Lastly, what percentage of people ever send a rod in for repair? Over the past ten years, I've owned more than 50 rods. Three have been back for a warranty fix, all three were charged a S+H fee.

    Sure, if you're a klutz who can never remember where the rod tip is in relation to your trunk lid or car door, a warranty might be a good thing. But its worth remembering that warranties are intended to stand behind manufacturing defects, not operator error. Many manufacturers start charging an additional fee when they see the same rod coming back with the same busted tip resulting from a car-rod encounter. The fix isn't to buy only new rods with warranties. It's to simply pay attention and treat your gear with respect and care.

    If you can get a $600 rod used for $300, the savings will pay for a lot of shipping and handling charges. Plus you get to fish with a better rod.

    K
     
  12. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Interesting. My understaning, and this comes from running a shop for two years: warranties were not honored if you were not the original owner--- the one who signs the warranty card at time of purchase.

    You have owned 50 rods in the last 10 years. Where the hell are all of them? That is five rods a year.
     
  13. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    I still have 16 of the 50. 11 bamboo and 5 plastic. Most were sold once I realized that there was a difference between what I bought and what I needed. A few were sold and then I immediately regretted parting with them. Call me a slow learner I guess :hmmm:

    K
     
  14. Kaari White

    Kaari White Active Member

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    I'm not sure what the cost is (I believe they're mid-range), but I casted a 9ft 5 weight Loop AEG rod the other day and it was pretty sweet!! Lots of power, faster action, but not broomstick feeling at all.
     
  15. kruggy1

    kruggy1 New Member

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    I own two scott A2's a 6wt and a 9'6'' 8wt and love them both. The 6wt is my go to rod and use it for everything, from using dries to streamers and also even mid sized bass bugs. I personaly not a sage fan and prefer scotts and never a loop but I think the A2's are worth every penny.
     
  16. stan

    stan Banned or Parked

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    You typically pay 50 cent or less on the dollar for a used xp or z axis? Want to back that up schill? A z axis is in the classififieds, it is about 65 to 70 cents on the dollar. You never see a z axis in the $2xx range, and barely ever see the xp in that range.
     
  17. stan

    stan Banned or Parked

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    Second, xp's and z -axis arent routinely sold for 50 - 60 cents on the dollar. That people are regularly selling their z-axis for 50 to 60 cents on the dollar is just insane.
     
  18. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

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    Wow! "Schill?" Pretty hostile-sounding post Stan.

    OK, here are a couple XPs from eBay right now. Auction #220245232108 is for a 596-4 that's currently bid to $101. Auction #170228116731 is for a 586-4 that's currently at $51. Sure there's plenty of time left on both auctions for fools to bid them up. But both sold new in the $600 range, so there's still a lot of headroom left even to get to 50¢ on the original dollar. Plus, this is prime time for trout fishing. The same rods selling in November or December won't fetch nearly as much.

    Your tone aside though, you're right in that some newer or popular model Sage models won't depreciate as rapidly as others or as models from other makers. Making a blanket statement that implies 'all' used rods can be had for 50¢ on the dollar was inaccurate of me.

    While some used rods may fetch a higher percentage, not all do. So I'll stand by my statement as applying to a broader range of used rods than just the two models mentioned above.

    For the sake of discussion, let's say you're right and that one is able to buy a newish Z-Axis for 60¢ or 70¢ on the dollar. At $615 new for a 590-4, please tell me why saving $185 to $246 by buying one used wouldn't make doing so worthwhile?

    K
     
  19. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    You can find XP's and sometimes Z-Axis/Xi-2's/TCR's for 1/2 off original mfg. price. You might not right now for the next few months but that is because of timing, it's prime fishing time. Check prices in November through February, might have a better chance of finding those prices. (Remember it is the used rods that fetch these prices, not NIT rods, well maybe once in awhile.
     
  20. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    Stan, I gotta say that it bothers me to see you treat Mr Lufkin like that. He is a friendly and helpful guy around here that treats everyone with respect...

    (sorry Chris, I couldnt bite my tongue any longer)
     

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