mike kinney and bob meiser join tfo

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by shawn k, Feb 8, 2007.

  1. shawn k

    shawn k Member

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    buckets worldwide
  2. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    I just think it will be impressive to have two of the best rod designers working on more affordable spey rods.
     
  3. Eric Tarcha

    Eric Tarcha gear whore

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    that is fantastic....!
     
  4. greyghost

    greyghost Member

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    Wow! I can't wait, congrats TFO!

    Pete
     
  5. Bert Kinghorn

    Bert Kinghorn Formerly "nextcast"

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    TFO pulled off a major coup getting these two to join them, especially given the growing reputation for Meiser rods and the MKS series in particular. We will all benefit from the new association. The bar just got raised again for two-handed rod performance. Hats off to TFO for a very smart business decision.
     
  6. Salmon Chaser

    Salmon Chaser Wannabe Spey God

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    Will a price hike be in the near future? bawling:
    Salmon Chaser
     
  7. Philster

    Philster Active Member

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    When Lefty joined the only price hike came with a higher end rod. A level of quality, design, and materials they hadn't offered before. And it wasn't a big step up to the top of the line. So, if there is a price hike this time, hopefully it'll be the same story. An improvement in their entire line of spey rods, and the addition of a "high end" line, which is only a little more than the current models. Let's hope anyway.
     
  8. Hal Eckert

    Hal Eckert Active Member

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    Great news can't wait to see that light weight trout spey rod.

    :beer2: :)

    BG
     
  9. Salmon Chaser

    Salmon Chaser Wannabe Spey God

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    Thanks Philster,,, lets hope it doesnt happen. BG you beat me to it as i am in line for one of the light trout speys myself.
    SC
     
  10. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    The TFO rods that have Mike's and Bob's fingerprints on them have their own price points as outlined in the press release. As far as I know the current production TFO two handers are not increasing in price beyond the $25.00 increase we had last Fall.
     
  11. Ringlee

    Ringlee Doesn't care how you fish Moderator Staff Member

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    Might have to pick up the 4/5 weight. Sounds very interesting.
     
  12. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    I think Philster is right. They might come out with a higher end, but I don't think there will be an overall price hike. TFO's success (I beleive ) is in their reputation of a good product and a more than reasonable price. I big price hike would do some damage to their reputation.
     
  13. bigtj

    bigtj Member

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    Hot damn! These rods are going to rock. I've always been a "sage" guy but the prices have always been ridiculous. Maybe this will be a message to other rod companies that consumers want high-end performance for a more pedestrian price. Can't wait to see them.
     
  14. luckybalbowa

    luckybalbowa Member

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    well, you would hope it might drive down the prices a little, but it would be a bad thing to hear of those guys in bainbridge and woodland losing their jobs because of the cheap labor found overseas that tfo uses.
     
  15. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    That's a good sentiment, but I don't think it would come to that. I do think Sage will follow suit like they did with the Launch series for single handers and make a spey rod that is a little more affordable for the rest of us if they want a piece of that market. This new series of TFO two handed rods is going to have the same impact on the market that Lefty Kreh's single handed rods had/There are always gonna be guys in the sport to whom money is no object, but others will need something a little cheaper if they want to also be able to afford a line and reel to go with the rod.
    Of course these rods won't be a substitute for the Mike Kinney Series or the Highlander's that Meiser makes. But they will be great for people just getting into spey casting or people who want a back up to fill out their selection.
    I'm already thinking about getting the two-handed trout rod.
     
  16. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    Flyshopkristan posted this yesterday :confused: it's old news :beer1: look below:D

    never mind...me bad :beathead: :beathead:
     
  17. FlyShopKristin

    FlyShopKristin Going Online

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    Nah - that was my dumb-ass move. I posted without looking to see this string had already started.

    Congrats to Mike, Bob and TFO - this is great! Bert said is best - "we will all benefit from the new association". These are great rods, and I am so glad to see the incredible talents of Bob and Mike in a new line of rods.
     
  18. FT

    FT Active Member

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    Keep in mind that these new rods are going to be built out of IM6 graphite and will not be made out of the higher modulus graphites Meiser uses in his rods. Also, they will not utilize different type of graphite for different rod sections, as Meiser uses. The tapers will be Meiser's and they will perform well; but they will not be of the same performance level of Meiser's multi-modulus rods. Nor will they have the same high standards of cosmetics of Meiser's rods.

    Also, keep in mind that Mike is not a rod designer, he told Meiser what he wanted in a rod, Meiser built blanks, Mike tested the resulting rods, Meiser refined them based on Mike's input, Mike tested them again, etc. until Mike was happy with the result. Thus, the MKS series rods came into being.

    Yes, TFO's Meiser style rods (including the MKS type ones) will cast well enough. And they will be a good choice for those looking to or needing to spend less. However, please let's not delude ourselves into thinking they will be the equal of high end rods, including the Meiser's they are being based upon. IM6 is a good rod material; however, it doesn't have the performance of newer, higher modulus graphites, especially when you use different graphites in different sections of the rod optimized for their performance at that point in the rod's deflection curve.

    It is also nice that their are good 2-hand rods on the market now in the $250-$350 price range. However, this will not remove the market for high performance, high-end rods from companies like Sage, Loomis, Meiser, Burkheimer, T&T, CND, etc. Their will always be folks who will look for the highest perfomance 2-hander that suits their casting style and preferences, even among those who don't have the cash to spend on an $800.00 rod. Many of these folks will save for a few years and then buy the high end rod for the performance. They will then use that rod until it wears out, breaks, or they die. So please, let's not jump on the bandwagon that not everyone can afford a high end rods. The truth is we all can if we are willing to save for it and wait a few years until we have enough stashed away to get it.

    Also, keep in mind that companies like TFO are not innovating. They are simply using tapers and designs that the high end rod companies and builders have developed and thoroughly tested, they are not creating their own unique tapers. The Sages, Meiser's etc. of the world are the ones doing the actual development and refinement work. Then the TFO's come along, take the design, pay the developer a fee for using his work, and have them built offshore using cheap, sweatshop labor.

    I find it interesting that St. Croix can develop their own tapers and designs, use local labor in the Wisconsin town they are located in, and still have a 2-hander built for the same $350.00 retail price without using sweat shop labor in a foreign country. I guess St. Croix is able to get along with less profit per rod. I wonder why TFO can't do this.
     
  19. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    I don't think that anyone insinuated that this was going to replace the high end market. But perhaps this can refresh some of the pricing that is going on. Let's be honest, can anyone say that the Loomis Greased Line rods are worth nearly a Grand? The fit and finish stinks, especially compared to the rods put out by Burkie and Meiser.

    Also as for TFO not innovating, that's true, but hopefully this change will help drive some of the innovations (however slight) in taper design into the lower end market. In a lot of ways, this lower end market helps define and push the higher end along.

    I've often wondered this too. Is it all about profit margin, or are there other economics involved here? For instance, why is it almost as cheap to purchase a fly reel made in Germany (with high labor costs) that is shipped to the US, as it is to purchase a local product (take your pick!). In some cases I agree the comparison isn't fair, but some companies like St Croix seem to put out a very good product, made in the US, all with the same (or slightly higher) price point than other US companies.
     
  20. luckybalbowa

    luckybalbowa Member

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    When talking about meiser's rod designs, I heard that he doesnt actually make the rods himself, he specifies/designs a taper and has someone else build it. Could someone please validate/refute this information with authority.

    Thanks.
     

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