Discussion in 'Fly Tying' started by Jack Devlin, Dec 25, 2012.

  1. Jack Devlin Active Member

    Posts: 1,191
    Western Washington, Puget Sound area
    Ratings: +931 / 1
    I use Deceivers a lot in the salt for Salmon and Cutthroats and thought I would tie up some small ones specifically for Sea-run Cutthroats. These are tied on Gamakatsu SS15 Size #10 so they are pretty small. Instead of bucktail which is normally used on Deceivers, I'm using arctic fox which should give more movement than bucktail when tied so short. Jackd
    I've added a "scale" photo. Should a put the dime in the first pic.
    J View attachment 22171
    View attachment 22170
  2. Brad Niemeyer Old School Member

    Posts: 672
    Woodinville, WA
    Ratings: +42 / 0
    I like those alot. My dad sent me some arctic fox in nat grey and dyed red. Methinks, I should follow your lead and tie up some "5-Weight deceivers"
  3. Speyrod GB Member

    Posts: 50
    Tumwater, WA
    Ratings: +21 / 0
    Those look great.
  4. GAT Active Member

    Posts: 3,956
    Willamette Valley, OR
    Ratings: +2,536 / 0
    Love 'em! I've been mess'n around with baitfish patterns and I need to try some of those.
  5. Eyejuggler Beech Nut

    Posts: 604
    Ratings: +331 / 0
    Look really sweet, beautiful work! I am going to tie some up right now!
    That hook looks like an SC15, but those are pretty close.
  6. pittendrigh Active Member

    Posts: 302
    Ratings: +49 / 0
    Very nice.

    The dime makes them look an inch or an inch and half long. Someone I know has been trying to sell me on really tiny streamers. #14 to #16 hooks and maybe 1/2" long. Everything is frozen now. But I'm going to try it next chance I get. That might be too small for sea run Cutts (which I know nothing about). But maybe not in smaller trout streams.
  7. Jack Devlin Active Member

    Posts: 1,191
    Western Washington, Puget Sound area
    Ratings: +931 / 1
    They are 1 1/2" to just under 2 inches long. I tie them on small hooks for use in the Spring when I catch a lot of small sea-run cutthroat. I don't like to use the more standard #6 and #8 sizes when there are small fish around.
    If a big one grabs the #10 fly he'll still get hooked. As the season progresses, I'll switch to larger hooks/flies.
    I don't know about 1/2 " streamers. That's a bit small and more difficult to tie but certainly would work on trout. Be fun to fish with a 2 or 3 weight ??? I tie mini-streamers but only down to (mostly) Size #10, mustad 9575 hook. Here is a photo of some of my mini-streamers from last year compared with again a dime. I'm due to tie up another batch.
    Jack View attachment 22186
    Jeff Dodd and Eyejuggler like this.
  8. pittendrigh Active Member

    Posts: 302
    Ratings: +49 / 0
    I know it's dangerous to talk about wacking fish. The Montana bag limit is 5 fish per day. I kill about a half a dozen a year. I always inspect the stomachs. Browns love crayfish and sculpins. Rainbows are more bug oriented. Big browns will often have surprisingly large sculpins in their gullets. But by ratio they seem to prefer smaller ones. Huge sculpins are always available. So it's not too much of stretch say they'll take what comes their way. But if preference is somehow involved, they seem to like the little ones best.

    I have seen fish stomachs with tiny sculpins and minnows in them.

    On the flip side of the "small is better" argument are the stories I've heard from the Montana fish shocking crews. A buddy of mine (who still works for the Fish and Game) told me about a 15 pounder they shocked one summer, that had 1/3rd of an 16 inch rainbow sticking out of its mouth. They tagged it and came back a week later for the second run (where they compare the ratio of tagged to untagged fish in order to extrapolate total population). They netted that monster again. But a week later the tail of that rainbow was barely visible at the back end of its mouth. So if you're targeting 15 pound browns a 16 inch streamer might be a logical tactic.
  9. Jack Devlin Active Member

    Posts: 1,191
    Western Washington, Puget Sound area
    Ratings: +931 / 1
    My reason for using smaller hooks when I know there are small fish around is to minimize hooking damage. Our sea-run cutthroat fishery in the salt is barbless hook, catch and release. I've had occasions when a large hook will come out through the eye or eye socket of a small fish. These cutts "have no fear" and will hit big flies and lures regardless of their own size.
  10. Ed Call Mumbling Moderator

    Posts: 17,361
    Kitsap Peninsula
    Ratings: +1,330 / 9
    I prefer deceivers over clousers for cast ability, tying up some smaller ones is on my to do list.
    kelvin likes this.
  11. Tim Cottage Formerly tbc1415

    Posts: 1,684
    Outer Duvall
    Ratings: +242 / 1
    Great looking mini ceivers as well as the second group of variations on a few different themes. I really like seeing the evidence of the tiers mind at work as they work through different variations. Like following footprints along a path.

  12. Irafly Active Member

    Posts: 3,572
    Everett, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +1,020 / 1
    These are just the sizes I've used in tropical salt for all sorts of game fish, including my first Rooster on a fly. Nice ties indeed.
  13. Jack Devlin Active Member

    Posts: 1,191
    Western Washington, Puget Sound area
    Ratings: +931 / 1
    View attachment 22220
    They kind of look like some of the little reef fishes I use to keep in a saltwater aquarium.:)
  14. Anil Active Member

    Posts: 1,054
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +205 / 6
  15. Jack Devlin Active Member

    Posts: 1,191
    Western Washington, Puget Sound area
    Ratings: +931 / 1
    Those are nice but I prefer to tie them in the traditional way with traditional materials where possible. Also, I think a size #4 for sea-run cutthroats is too large a hook to be using. Just my preferences.
  16. Anil Active Member

    Posts: 1,054
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +205 / 6
    Take a closer look at the SC15 again. The #4 is about the same size as most #8's.
  17. Anil Active Member

    Posts: 1,054
    Tacoma, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +205 / 6
    Sorry if this comes off as a little defensive, but I'm not sure what the departure from 'tradition' comes from?

    The back is Peacock, the hackle is natural, the only departure in material is the synthetic hair which like you, I chose to change from bucktail, due to stiffness of bucktail on such a small fly.

    Attached Files:

  18. Jack Devlin Active Member

    Posts: 1,191
    Western Washington, Puget Sound area
    Ratings: +931 / 1
    Anil, those flies are nice. Next time I'm in your shop I'll order a few dozen in different colors. I didn't mean to put you on the defensive. That's the trouble with a venue like this where we are not face to face and we don't know one anothers personality.

    What I consider "traditional" is that the only material tied as long as the tail feathers is the flash. Other materials, buck tail and herl, are tied in to half (+-)the length of the tail feathers. That, in addition to the tail being tied in at the beginning of the bend of the hook, is what gives a deceiver its distinctive appearance, anti-fouling properties, and action. Hey, you (and I) can tie 'em whatever way we want. As much as I like tying flies the way they were originally designed I also like having my own way. That's why I like fly tying so much.
    You are correct about the SC15 #4 hooksize. It is smaller than a "normal" #4. In fact, I have even used an SC 15 #2 on some flat wings and it is not too big.

    This deceiver in the photo is the classic/traditional pattern pretty much as Lefty Kreh designed it except that he just "bunched" the tail feathers rather than splaying them. You can see that the buck tail collar and herl extends only to about half the length of the tail feathers. That's a deceiver to me but I tie them with variation too but prefer the orig design.

    Jack deceiver_classic.jpg
  19. Mark Mercer Member

    Posts: 1,133
    port orchard, wa
    Ratings: +493 / 0
    Jack those are some fantastic little guys.
  20. kelvin Active Member

    Posts: 1,996
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