Montana stream access under attack.

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by bitterroot, May 31, 2013.

  1. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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  2. creekx

    creekx spent spinner


    Exactly. Some would consider the Ruby skinny water, especially in it's upper reaches. You wouldn't have to drive so far to fish it if that other ass hat from Atlanta didn't have miles of it blocked off above the reservoir.
     
  3. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

    Ted Turner has a very, very big ranch on the Ruby. Every time I drive by that place I give the ranch the finger. It don't bother him, but I feel better. He doesn't let anybody on his water.

    But I fish up in the National Forrest land. He doesn't own that.
    I'll probably be up in the skinny water in the sky when all that comes about.
     
  4. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    Me too, but I want to get in a few good hits on the greedy ass hats before I go!
     
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  5. Jim Speaker

    Jim Speaker Active Member

    OMJ, it's specifically related to 8 miles of the Ruby. In my recollection that's one of the rivers you fish. Want to give it over to a rich boys club without calling bullshit on them? IMO you got more spunk than that... just sayin.
     
  6. Jim Speaker

    Jim Speaker Active Member

    I actually read that Turner finally started playing fair. He still has an issue with people on the Ruby?

    I've read reports from the Red Rock recently and that was a no go for a long time due to Turner.

    I'm not saying he's not an ass hat. But, is there any truth to him changing his ways of late?
     
  7. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

    That ranch in question has Buffalo on it and not much else. The area that I fish is about 20 miles higher up the river. Where the Grayling are.
     
  8. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Thanks for posting and why I joined and support PLWA...these guys do a lot for protecting public land access rights. "King Kennedy" has been at this for awhile. People like him piss me off as I don't think anyone should own our nations treasures.
    King Cox Kennedy.jpeg
     
  9. Jim Speaker

    Jim Speaker Active Member

    Seeing what he looks like just makes me want to puke... picturing that *** out on the Ruby makes me sick.
     
  10. Jim Darden

    Jim Darden Active Member

    This whole issue confuses me. If you read the federal law, it seems clear that all navigable waters are public domain up to the high water mark. However, only Montana seems to enforce this. In Washington, anglers were prosecuted for floating the little Spokane river and the courts held that the land owner owned the river bed and the water above it. In the salt chuck, Washington has sold most of the tidelands, so you can't fish the beach. In Colorado they have prosecuted kayakers on the Colorado River....guess you have to buy a judge to insure your rights......sounds like Mexico to me
     
  11. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    Jim, someone in Washington State and Colorado need to fight the errant laws into federal court. The federal trust applies to all states. Time and time again, the feds have ruled in favor of the river rights for navigable rivers. The river side land owners have the big bucks to push the state legislatures around. The only way to beat them back is to drag the issue into federal court... or open revolt against the river side land owners who ignore the rights. I kind'a lean toward the latter :D
     
  12. John Read

    John Read New Member

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  13. Tony Polizzi

    Tony Polizzi Active Member

    Jim the document linked above should help clarify the legalities in WA , for the record one can be perfectly within the law and still behave like an ass. I for one would recommend having impeccable manors and behaving like gentlemen and gentlewomen even when confronted with ignorance.
     
  14. GAT

    GAT Active Member

  15. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Another way to beat there big $$ is to use our collective numbers and smaller donations (i.e. PLWA membership is only $20/yr). The few key folks in these groups do a ton of heavy lifting on behalf of all of us... consider helping them out. Being able to show large numbers of members is a powerful tool for them in getting legislators attention...who are concurrently being wooed by King Kennedy, Lord Turner and the like.
     
  16. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Montana TU, unlike TU National has taken a stand on protecting Montana Stream Access Law... any is why I changed my TU Chapter affiliation to MT and direct any additional donations and personal support directly to them.
     
  17. Tony Polizzi

    Tony Polizzi Active Member

    That makes great sense to me. That is one of the essential roles to my mind of large NGOs, like Rocky Mountain Elk, the NRA, American White Water, TU.
    The good news is that the keystone of public trust doctrine is that somethings are so valuable that they can not be sold or given by the current generation because the current generation is borrowing from those yet born. Those Roman lawyers understood the potentials of power.
     
  18. Tony Polizzi

    Tony Polizzi Active Member

    I am often surprised by the positions folks take on this issue who are unwavering in their views on the second amendment, to me both public trust doctrine and the second amendment go hand in glove in their opposition to tyranny. (que patriotic music)
     
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  19. GAT

    GAT Active Member

    Most likely, a lot of the money for the guns and ammo lobby (NRA) comes from the very folks who own land adjacent to the rivers.

    Regardless, numbers is power especially when it comes to state legislatures... I can speak from experience. It is only due to the masses that greatly outnumber the big money guys that keep the river rights intact in Oregon. They keep trying to remove those rights and have for many years so we watch for bills that will and do crop up from time to time and launch a campaign to raise holly hell with the representatives until they get the point that they will not be re-elected when there term ends.

    Numbers are the only method to fight big money. It does work but you need everyone onboard who uses the rivers to push back the attack from the big money folk. And think about how many folks use the rivers... not just anglers. Think about the businesses who rely on river users to sell their products. You can gather a lot of support but you need a focal organization to get everyone together. One that isn't dedicated to anglers but covers everyone who uses the rivers.
     
    Brett Angel likes this.