Mt Rainier Tragedy Opens Nonsense Debate

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Desolate, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. lylelovett666

    lylelovett666 Active Member

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    LOUD NOISES!
     
  2. lylelovett666

    lylelovett666 Active Member

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    Just read an article on Guns.com about accidental gun Deaths and firearm-related homicides being at an all-Time low.
     
  3. themaninthemoon

    themaninthemoon Just waiting on warmer weather, .......

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    Well, here's the problem with AK Powder Monkey's statement,
    & that is one of the very facts that he, himself observed, the deranged ex GI is/was, a "trained" killer, as that is exactly what the military trains you to do, they are responsible to train you for the taking of lives of a targeted enemy, even though we veterans are "all" supposed to be expected to return to our society, & behave as if none of the military's training ever took place, with the exception of the value's of discipline, & the knowledge gained through Advanced Infantry Training in our given fields of expertise, &/or, fields of occupation, that we also were taught in the same military that teaches us how to take lives, has most of us vets, very carefully weighing the choices of what is expected to be considered sane, vs insane. Most of us make it, back into civilian life, but some are considered to be rewired/damaged goods, and everyone of us has gone through the process of being changed in our lives by our experiences during the time served in the military. And who is to say who would be the next victim? I was trained to adapt to ever changing scenario's of living, working all day then pulling guard duty three to four nights a week, living in the field under the conditions of warfare, as training for the real thing, & after re-enlisting & moving to the Berlin Bde., I was sent to a 2 week crash course for Explosives & Demolition school, & came out 8th in a class of 200, because I screwed off the whole 1st week. Otherwise I'd have probably been selected #2, as there was 1 guy that had already worked in an EOD outfit, & he was the sharpest of all of us.
    So why would they send a wheel & track vehicle mechanic to such a school? Simple, because if the Russians had decided to invade West Berlin, they had 4 Russian Armored divisions just to the northeast of their section of the divided city, & there would be no need for a mechanic, as our life expectancy would range from 45 minutes to possibly three days, depending on the strength of the assault on the city.

    Even though I do not have a stash, or cache of items for equal effects of demolition of a total destruction of targets, there are several other methods of removing/damaging buildings, roads, bridges, train trestles, & water/electric plants, etcetera. I have friends that work in the drug task force here & there across the nation that I have spoken with, & gave warnings for targets of easy access. I know when, where, & how I would do a city/metropolitan area, or region, because if you can shut down, or even have your enemy lock down a city of any size for very long, you can instill a real threat of safety. So I spread the word to a few of them as to what they should also be looking for, in case of another terrorist attack.
    And I am only one person, not a team of anarchist's/terrorists. One person on a given mission could have the ability to shut down a city the size of Chicago in a week's time, as it would take that long to place detrimental objects of destruction in a manner that would stop any traffic in/out of, or through the city, because of its make-up of having many interconnecting interstates coinciding at certain given junctions. And you would have to go many miles to bypass the city because of the very design of it's infrastructure, which would not only seal off the city effectively, but also interrupt traffic flow of freight, goods, & services throughout the country for days, if not weeks.

    It is something that has to be considered, but hopefully common sense will prevail in the political arena in the area of the carrying of weapons, anywhere, not just in NP's. The 2nd amendment is not an outdated piece of literature, & should not be treated as if it is an archaic, useless piece of legislation. It was mandated by the forefathers of our nation to be a source of last resort force, in the protection of it's citizens, their rights, & for the procurement of food.
    A sharpened pencil can become just as deadly of a weapon, @ close range, as a fully automatic weapon.

    Just my 2 cents, John E. Osman III
     
  4. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Shit, you drifted this crap in front of me long enough. The quote that comes to mind is the reference to Rosie O'Donnel and her anti-gun stance:

    "blaming violence on guns is the same as blaming being fat on spoons."

    It's all about behavior.
     
  5. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Coming from Rosie this really packs some weight........:clown:
     
  6. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Gun owners like to talk in sober terms about the high responsibility of gun ownership, and yet in this country we allow any lunatic to purchase a gun. This is a contradiction that is hard to rationalize. Ideally, we'd be able to make gun ownership less of an unfettered right and more of a priviledge for those who actually demonstrate a level of responsibility appropriate to gun ownership. The ideal would be to somehow snap our fingers and take guns away from bad guys and leave them in the hands of good guys. The problem of course is that over the past century we've accumulated such a huge number of guns in circulation, and so many of them are now in the hands of lunatics, that there is no longer a way to suddenly prevent loonies from acquiring and using them to do bad things. So gun control at this point (including this narrow idea to outlaw them in NPs) are unrealistic. Thus we are left with Dick's advice to each arm ourselves in defense of the armed loonies, or stay unarmed and hope for the best.
     
  7. triploidjunkie

    triploidjunkie Active Member

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    When guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns. Not a good situation by anymeans
     
  8. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    You memorized the NRA message, congrats!

    No one here is talking about completely outlawing guns because it is true that too many are already in circulation, and many of those are in the hands of bad people. But it might make sense to make it a tad more difficult for ne'er-do-wells to get new ones.
     
  9. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    This shouldn't even be a gun debate. How about better mental and health care for our returning vets?
     
  10. Brian White

    Brian White Recovering Bugmeister

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    Moderators.....for the love of all that is holy please stop this entire thread! Let's make 2012 about fly-fishing and civility. Or at least fly-fishing and discussing which whiskey tastes best in a tin cup. Alternatively, would you consider creating a special subsection for "threads about politics, wolves and gun control" and then let the people who want to rant and denigrate each other go there? I think I even saw a post on this thread where someone criticized public sector employees. The only post on this whole thread (mine included) with any merit was the crab fly fishing one. It made me want to try to target crabs with a fly, despite a misspent youth where I spent a lot of time hoping I DIDN'T catch crabs...

    Happy New Year! Hoping my wife doesn't ever visit this forum! bw
     
  11. lylelovett666

    lylelovett666 Active Member

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    Lugan,Maybe we should make it so only people with a certain income or lineage or political clout should be able to purchase guns.If you want to make gun ownership some sort of privilege rather than a right I think you lack a basic understanding of why our founders knew this right is so vitally important.
     
  12. East Fork

    East Fork Active Member

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    :thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb::thumb:
     
  13. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    That is not what I was suggesting at all. Why did you feel the need to take my reasonable suggestion and extend to into the realm of the unreasonable?

    As far as the intent of our founding fathers, they lived in an America that was vastly different than the one we live in today. Sticking rigidly to dictums from 2+ centuries ago seems unwise. It seems like it should be OK to think critically about issues like this through the lens of today's reality.
     
  14. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    X2 . Of course. Suicide rates are very high for returning combat Vets.
     
  15. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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  16. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    Try living and working in the inner cities of Detroit, DC, PHilly, Baltimore or even Yakima few years and let us know how critical thinking will help you when being robbed and beaten at gun point. I am here today because I am a firearm owner.
     
  17. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Seems like gun law is not the issue here. The issue centers around the second link in the original thread post where the Puyallup redneck calls the retired NPS guy a scum sucking liar. There's plenty of room for debate, altho I haven't read any posts opposed to 2nd Amendment firearm ownership. The over-riding issue is the lack of civility from the Puyallup redneck and a few posters in this thread.

    The important topic, introduced by Ira, regarding fly choice for Ascension Bay is solved with a weighted crab imitation in pinkish-orange coloration, between the size of a dime and a nickel, three pairs of white rubber legs, and a pair of grizzly dyed yellow hackles as claws/arms. Leave the rubber legs a little long; the guides like to trim them to their liking.

    Sg
     
  18. Irafly

    Irafly Indi "Ira" Jones

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    We have a small way of getting around this on the forum with the NFR and SFR (Non Fishing Related and Somewhat Fishing Related) titles before posts. You are somewhat new so I can understand why you may not have known to do that before you posted. As this is a Fly Fishing Sight my attempt to hijack simply was trying to bring us back to the overall purpose of this forum. Granted as Mumbles stated, I'm not always the best at this myself.

    Now back to catching crabs on a fly... Hmmmm I'll have to try to tie a dead fish fly, might work, or maybe something to just tick them off and get caught in their claws, maybe something like they use for Alligator gar. I'll work on it. Bug, I do have some flies that look like little crabs that I'll throw at permit while I'm there.

    Ira..

     
  19. Chris Johnson

    Chris Johnson Member: Native Fish Society

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    Well stated G, on both counts, thank you.
     
  20. generic

    generic Active Member

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    I was afraid my advice got lost in the heat of debate. Sg seems to have some good advice on the details of the pattern. From what I "hear", it is absolutely amazing when they take the crab. They come into the shallows (sometimes having to "tilt" to one side) pick up the crab, and ziiiiip! Out to open water they go.

    Sg, I was almost going to make the same statement as you did. I'm glad it was you though. I'm not as good at "typing" what I'm trying to say sometimes, and it comes off kinda harsh. Other times I'm just an ass. Well stated though. :thumb:
     
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