Mt Rainier Tragedy Opens Nonsense Debate

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Desolate, Jan 3, 2012.

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  1. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    dflett, My intent was to state my opinion & personal preference, not get in a flame war with someone such as yourself for example who knows absolutely NOTHING about me or my level of proficiency and experience. However, I respect your right to have an opinion, also.
     
  2. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    Can't imagine how this relates to what I said. Sounds like she went through something terrible and I am grieved myself reading the story. If I had been her grief counselor, I can't imagine guns coming up. I'm armed myself, and I opened my post by saying so, and closed it by affirming anyone who wants to do the same. I was just trying to call out the lack of realism about some posts - most posts - I see here relative to what a confrontation involving guns is really like, and how confident carrying a gun should really make us. And to that point, would this armed woman have been able to react and protect herself and her baby if those guys had not been bumbling fools and given her so much time to prepare and respond? Of course not. I'm glad it worked for her, but I'm also pointing out the incredible rarity of such a scenario with regard to defending oneself with a gun. All respect to this woman, and anyone who has been a victim of violent/invasive crime. We all have a right to arm, defend, and protect ourselves and the ones we love.
     
  3. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Damn, we live in a scary and strange country. People in no other country in the developed world have these kinds of discussions.
     
  4. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    And that's what makes the USA unique... freedom.
     
  5. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    Jim, I shouldn't have quoted you directly, I'm sorry. I don't know you, as you said, and I assume you're a good honest guy and you've got every right to protect yourself. Best wishes.
     
  6. idahokid

    idahokid David Willey

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    That what I'm talking about.
     
  7. seaalki

    seaalki Member

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  8. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Freedom is not all that unique to the US. Lots of developed countries have freedoms like ours. I was referring to danger and paranoia as uniquely American.

    But the US is unique in many other positive ways: Creativity, risk-taking, entrepreneurship, individualiy, etc. THAT is unique to the US.
     
  9. martyg

    martyg Active Member

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    Amen and I am totally with you. I think the same thing when the threads about protection in the woods goes off. I've had a lot of tactical training time in the service including some time downrange. I just don't feel that I am proficient with a handgun unless I am shooting 500 - 1,000 rounds per week - but my definition of proficient is being able to quickly draw, index fire and hit at 21 feet with a high degree of accuracy.

    As for the mother in Oklahoma, sitting in your living room with a shotgun leveled at the door is a different world from using a handgun. I saw the interview and re enactment on the new - she has no idea how to shoulder a gun - but it did the job and that's what counts.
     
  10. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    It's been said many times that even with all of the USA flaws, it's still better than the next best place. And, for those of you who believe otherwise, just be sure to let the forum know where that better country is so we can send you a postcard...:thumb:
     
  11. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    That's exactly right. In my own adult life, I've lived in foreign countries twice and both times returned to the US because it is the best country on earth for me to live in. There was never much doubt about that.

    On the other hand, it ain't perfect. We could improve a lot, which is a topic for another thread on a political forum.
     
  12. seaalki

    seaalki Member

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    http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/SeesawCorp1057.jpg/220px-SeesawCorp1057.jpg
    "comme ci, comme ca" in the small playground of ones mind, the teeter totter / see-saw, a mechanical system with two equilibrium positions, pivots... is it levity or is it gravitas, gravitas or levity?
     
  13. Nick Clayton

    Nick Clayton Active Member

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    I totally get the gist of what you're saying, and in general this isn't directed at you at all freestone, but I absolutely HATE the arguement of "Well if you don't like it here move someplace else" whenever someone complains about this country. Just because living in the US is arguably better than any alternative does NOT mean that there is no room for improvement, or that we should not be trying to improve upon our society.

    Ok, rant over.
     
  14. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Right on Nick.
     
  15. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    I too think this is the best place in the world to live, but one thing's for sure: This attitude is how people and groups and nations all STOP getting better and START getting worse - by responding to any kind of criticism as an attack, rejecting all input/accountability to improve, and attacking anyone who doesn't see eye to eye with you as an enemy. This is the polarizing anti-dialogue that's weakening us worse than anything as a nation. Real strength does not need to fear or crush criticism or dialogue. We all know from life that being challenged makes us stronger, and the inverse is equally true.
     
  16. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    Please rest assured, I don't feel attacked at all. The undertone of this thread is gun control; those who support it and those that do not.

    The 2nd amendment grants US citizens the right to bear arms. This is a unique freedom not shared by many countries. When I hear people make the statement "it's not perfect and could be better", in a thread largely now discussing gun control, I doubt I'm wrong interpreting the real message behind that statement.
     
  17. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Rest assured, your interpretation was wrong.
     
  18. hikepat

    hikepat Patrick

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    Since this thread is still going
    The 82-year-old homeowner woke up at 6 a.m. after hearing someone at his backdoor, the report said. He armed himself with a .45 automatic and fired a single shot through the door, the report said. The suspected burglar was hit in the abdomen and likely died minutes later.

    The suspect was described as a white male in a ski mask who was carrying a hammer and screwdriver at the time of the shooting. Police have tentatively identified the suspect as the man wanted for other burglaries in the neighborhood, the report said.


    “The 82-year-old resident did something that the criminal justice system couldn’t do,” said Mike Chitwood, the chief of Daytona Beach police. “And that’s put this burglar out of business this morning.”


    Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/01/1...pected-burglar/?test=latestnews#ixzz1jPF6p9mQ
     
  19. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    No problem, dflett. Thanks.
     
  20. freestoneangler

    freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

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    I am glad to hear that, in your case, I'm wrong.
     
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