Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by FT, May 7, 2007.
Just one question, did ya hit Bhudda?
Not sure of the line diameter, but i think the Carron lines are a full 50 yrd line then with running line attached, so the line is not cut at the head and running line attached from there, it depends i guess on what each comp rules are. but in the UK you only get a couple of minutes to make you casts during the comp, so stripping in loads of running line uses up to much time and its a 40/45 degree angle change, so comps invovle a 90 angle change which is more suited to short heavy heads, but in saying that Gordon won those comps too.
Like anything, these guys cast well over 70 yards all the time, its just a case of getting it right on the day and the weather being suitable for your couple of minutes, not all comp rods are fishing rods.
Well over 70 yards all the time? How is that possible if the new record is 73 yards?
They practice a lot! The 7o yard barrier often gets broken when casting for practice!
In the Kelso competition they had 3 minutes to cast. There was no limit on number of attempts: only the best cast counted. There were many very long casts from the 6 finalists which did not count as some part of the rig was blown into the no-go zone; the conditions were absolutely dreadful - the sort of winds which would make many fisherman stay at home.
Everyone who competed must be congratulated: and those who did well, especially the Carron Team, are to be warmly held in the highest esteem.
Eoin Fairgreve along with his band of helpers in organizing such a wonderful 2 day angling fair is also congratulated. Having been involved in organizing horse competitions and agricultural shows I know how much time is involved - and the level of tact required! Well done Eoin and your team.
Thanks for the clarification on where the running line is attached to the comp lines. I was thinking it was attached within a foot of the ending of the back taper, which would also mean less stripping that with a short, heavy head. Still, with casts of 70 yds and more and a comp line head of 105', there is still a goodly bit of running line being stripped.
I got to see some of the Carron clan cast at Aaron's (speybum) spey casting get together last fall. They are impressive, as is the Carron 17'11" comp rod. These top spey casters would have to practice cast for distance most everyday to have the consistency they have.
It was asked earlier but is there anywhere that the comps can be viewed online? Have they ever been released in DVD form? I would love to see these guys blasting out casts for an hour or so!!!:beer2:
That they practice a lot and they are good is not the hard part to believe, Im sure they also have some talent they are born with. What's unbelieveable is that theres that many people that can regularly come close to a a world record cast. The number one guy got 73, the number 2 got 71 and the number 3 got only 68! But even though number three got 68.5 yards all these guys have no problem breaking 70 yards when it doesn't count? It just sounds too fishy. I'm not trying to pick an argument, but if I told you the that every sprinter in the olympics can consistently run a 50 m in under 5.8 seconds in practice and the world record is 5.6 seconds; its really hard to beleive.
I was fortunate to have all three of the Carron Fellows staying with me in the MH that weekend; GREAT fellows all. One of the fellows commented that it's actually 'easier' to make very long casts on moving water than on a 'still pond.' Gather the extra 'water loading' on the line can make quite a difference vis a vis the length of the cast(s).
On the length of the Carron lines (if memory serves here) they're usually 150' long; for competition an extra length of running line is spliced to the end. Usually the equipment used has to be readily available "on the open market." (Frequently there will be a restriction on the size (width) of the line or a max. of (to pick something) a 10/11 weight and the length of the rod.)
I think it's believeable that those folks are routinely hitting 70+ yards, and some days probably somewhat further - especially when they're practicing and in their own element. I know that many consider that one will lose 5-10% (or more) of one's casting distance when the increased stress of being involved in a competition is added to the equation. The same holds true for sprinters - many world record times are beaten but they're not counted because they didn't take place under the same circumstances.
That's definitely true Steve my man. But the greatest athletes, the record breakers, always perform better in competitive environments than in practice. Either way, Id like to sit in on one of these competitions and watch these guys cast. I d like to watch it from a football field to see how the cast develops over distance.
I don't want to risk besmirching the top competitors' splendid achievements, but I'd like to know more about those strong, nasty winds, and how their prevailing direction related to the direction of the casts. How could any competition involving hurling projectiles for distance set new records into the teeth of a strong wind? Every fly angler knows what casting into the wind does to one's best efforts.
So either the wind was into the faces of the casting competitors, in which case new record distances would have been impossible; or the wind was from the side, presenting a major annoyance; or it was at the competitors' backs, providing a natural advantage - in which case "new record distances" should not be counted or acknowledged.
Rarely is a wind purely advantagous or disadvantagous. In track meets regardless of the specific direction of the wind, if it's outdoors and over a certain threshold it don't count. I'd like to see something similar just to make sure things are on an even playing field. Regardless though, 70 yards is a *RIDIRKULOUS* amount of line to throw.
Hi Salmon Chaser,
I know one of the guys is going to have a DVD out later this year, in fact i think its getting done right now, but will know better when i get home to the Spey.
I will say that in the next 6 months the world record will be broken again, most of the lines used are not fishing lines but comp lines, and the rods are almost all UK built rods that can take the style of distance casting and last, all the distance casters have tried loads of rods but still use the same UK companies.
In these competitions, as a norm, any/all the equipment has to be available 'on the open market.' If you want one of the Carron Comp rods, you're only a call and credit card number away from being a 'proud owner.' :thumb:
Many thanks for getting back to me regarding my question. I will surely be on the lookout for a copy when it becomes available. Please let us know of any comp DVD's.
Agree with the word "purely," but I can think of two instances (one good, one bad) where the 'wind' was THE factor involved. On the good side, I like the winners, use Carron dry lines (standard heads) and on the Deschutes a 'tailing wind' is a GOOD THING. Only time in my life where I could (16' rod) consistently cast well over 120 feet.
On the bad side, it cost Steve Choate his second first place win a few years back. His turn ... and the wind came up into his face ...... Game over.:beathead:
Just like a golf ball driving distance contest the winner does not mean anything as far as golf or fly fishing proficiency and results.
Personally would be more interested in an accuracy casting contest with heavy sink tips on the spey.
My 2 cents.
Although I agree with black ghost (above) in principle I would have to admit that there are exceptions. The Ness is a wide East Coast Scottish river much of which is only fishable by GOOD spey casters who can throw a long line with accuracy in often VERY windy conditions and whilst wading deep. It is no coincidence that the two top placed casters at Kelso are Gillies on adjoining beats on that river! IF there was an "All Skills" spey casting tournament I would back these two - Gordon Armstrong and Scott McKenzie against any others. They would be hot favourites with the bookies!
And Mr. Costello of Ireland - also of the Carron Team would, I bet, on an average score basis be very very highly placed in a mixed fly casting competition covering salt water, trout distance, accuracy, open salmon fly, Spey (or whatever else would be a test of åll round ability). I know that you have good all rounders in the US and Canada..Why not organize such a competition for next years GG competition?
These boys are GOOD...Very good!
While i agree with tweedside about most of the guy's being great fishers not just distance casters,having know Scott Mackenzie for a good while now he sure can catch fish as well as cast.
As far as the competition goes, you will not be able to buy the lines used off the shelf. Carron like any company wants there guy's to have the best and quite right, no other company, not one, is putting the money into distance casting like Carron, it seems as though Carron being just a small company is the only one interested in competition casting, even SA made the XLT shorter and more of a fishing line, there seems to be no interest from the bigger companies to produce a competition line.
On a related topic, Steve Rajeff demonstrated his two-handed distance rod at the Sandy Spey Clave two weekends ago. It's a specialty rod by GLoomis, 17' long, and stiff as a pool cue stick, and so thick in the butt section there was no cork grip. He cast a shooting head that I think was around 60 some feet long, followed by a holding line, and used 12# monofiliment nylon as the running line. He boomed out some casts in the 200' range using overhead casting technique. Strictly a competition casting tool, as it would be nigh on impossible to fish with.