Nextcast Fall Favorite 45

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by SpeySpaz, Aug 21, 2010.

  1. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    You always know when a line trial has gone well when your stripping arm is spent when you get home, but your dominant arm feels fine.

    This is my experience with the Nextcast Fall Favorite 45, one of the "next generation" shortheads that have been turning life upside down lately.

    I weighed the lines, all were within 10 grains of spec. All were exactly ten grains heavier, which was super cool.
    5/6- 510 gr
    6/7- 560 gr
    7/8- 610 gr

    those weights may sound a tad heavy, but read on.

    I fished the line under combat conditions, waist deep at Blue Creek from river right of course; with a light upstream breeze. The evening before I cast them from river left at my favorite line testing place. No, not Kamchatka, the Tank Crossing on the Nisqually....
    They were cast under a number of different conditions:
    snake rolled, doubled, poked, wrapped, singled, spiraled, multi-spiraled, snap-t'd, etc. plus a few the breeze invented for me.

    underlined, overlined
    small flies, bigger flies, leadeye bunnies
    mono/poly leaders
    varying % of top/bottom hand power
    with cigar/without cigar
    before/after brandy flask

    ...rigorous conditions, I know- but I believe in thorough testing.


    BLUF (bottom line up front): buy them, you must have them.

    I put the 6/7 on my 13057 Meiser hybrid, the backing knot was in my droploop in a dozen casts. Right about then, I started putting defects into the casts to see what I could get away with.

    I put the 5/6 on my 5/6 Deer Creek, guys were standing on the bank saying things like, "you sure have a purty cast". (Seriously, two guys said that.) Backing knot was about five handle turns from out. Not bad for a 12'6". These are 110' lines with a 15' leader.

    I put the 7/8 on my 1407 S rod, there were little sounds coming from the boat guys and they started steering clear. Knot was in the guides, and there was a roaring delta, especially with a poked cast.

    Needless to say, I was tenting my waders big time. I tried, (and didn't try) to blow casts, and rarely failed to get a turnover (tip diameter approximately comparable to Der Vektor). I tried absurd angle changes, underpowered cach hands, the whole nine yards...and they still turned over. There was less wiggle in the top leg than with most lines; tracking was true with straight layout.


    When underlined, the rods all still responded well, sort of a scandi on steroids deal from the tip... and the loops still went out, albeit with less authority and distance. I think the line ratings are dead-on accurate for the Meiser-designed tapers I cast them on. The grain measurements belie the belly balance, they feel nowhere near the weight they measure out to.

    I still have a couple Sages that are in line for a whack at them, however, so there's a bit more testing to do; thank heavens there's more brandy at the house, but after a couple days I'm very impressed.


    Like the Vector these lines are ideal for the skagit/scandi/skandit caster who wants to broaden horizons a bit and edge into the world of casting bellies more than three rods' length, strip a bit less, and enjoy summer more fully. Casting bellies may trigger a dangerous romance with longer and longer bellies, and you may end up in a 12-step group of some sort; nonetheless, they are excellent lines for tough conditions, like wind; and their castability is at a whole new level of performance than what we've become used to. A few less hundedths of diameter would be welcome in the running line, but I say that about every line I ever cast.

    As an aside, I brought a full-on newb to the river last night, a very nice young man who's been using an AFS to learn on for maybe three sessions. With a little coaching, he was making fishable casts with the head on the 6/7 FF45, and shot some line. That says a lot right there.
     
  2. Red Shed

    Red Shed "junkyard spey"

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    Thanks for the report Bob. I have sold a couple of the 45's to very satisfied customers.
     
  3. Panhandle

    Panhandle Active Member

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    Short head what?
     
  4. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    I have had mixed experiences with my winter authorities...yes can throw to the backing knot..but at 110' with the dry line on that's not really far enough on the rivers I bought her for...tried them on meiser and burkie...and wasn't as thrilled as I was compared to the vector line I tried this weekend....vector pimped out tight loops in a gale quite a ways, 17 strips versus 12 and backing knot on the winter auth.
    Problem two..winter's running line is quite thick and caused more drag then I like...chopped it into a head and threw a bit better but probably should have left like 15-20' of running line and then put on the mono. so you have something thicker to hold on to...

    I have a fall favorite 6/7 for my meiser 6/7 mks...I tried it once but was too windy to get actual results from...so need to take it out again...

    My findings as well as yours they are about a line weight heavier then comparable lines...i.e. the 8/9 at 670 versus the 9/10 vector at 650....normally I go a line wt. heavier on my meisers but found not the case with these...go with the line wt. or check your grain window....I really wish I liked this line as much as the vector as I dumped @ 150 a pop, three of their lines to try...

    Should also add that I was looking for a line for BIG rivers to skate bugs and smaller flies..i.e. summer runs and the length without adding a mono running line was a bit short...Glad to hear your results were better and need to get the fall favorite out again and tested better....gives me some hope reading your report as have been scratching my head on the winters....

    Thanks...
     
  5. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Thanks for the explanation, Golfman, I've been interested in trying out a winter Authority for my own self. Man, you must bust some serious string, finding those limits.

    I think these "new generation" lines like Vector and Fall Favorite 45 could use a slimmer, longer running line to accommodate the sort of casting they encourage.
    The FF 70 is a big distance line, a real bomber, generates huge energy. The 8/9 my go-to line on my 15' 8/9 Deer Creek.
     
  6. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

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    I've been using the FF70 of late on big water and in my opinion is a new level of long line technology. Will play with the FF45's this weekend, and have high expectations after my 70 experiences. The 7/8 or 8/9 work well on my 6/7/8 Highlander. Am currently using the 7/8.
    My short session with the Vector was impressive. but have not spent a day fishing it, and so can't say too much.
    I have limits on how much line I will strip. :clown:
     
  7. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Would like to try the ff70 but am wary so will wait and see If I can borrow one first...what I found weird is, and not trying to sound like a guru or anything, but the 110 mark came pretty quick with that line...was surprised as I was trying out a new stick and put on the skagit first as I had running line already on the reel...took it off and laced on the w.a. and was surprised seeing the backing knot...was just trying lines so on a relatively narrow flow and 110 is not that far...would think on the T. or clear. and trying to reach out further you'd have to come out with something to shoot further...

    Anyways, hoping the ff on my 6/7 works better...going to take out all my meisers and the burk and run all the lines on um and figure out what's what....Have heard from a few people the w.a. will throw wedges so was quite bummed by my experiences so far..the vector though...wow..that thing was tight, even in a strong blow...so might have one line that is a go..
     
  8. bendow

    bendow New Member

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    Recieved this line from Poppy in the mail yesterday. I have only grass-cast so far, but have several observations. First, I was impressed how easy it was to cast 100+. Throws very nice loops and turns-over well. One thing that was quickly apparent was how critical the correct amount of overhang is. What is the correct amount? Hard to say since there is no marker for the loading point....since this is an integrated line, the lack of a visible loading point is easily this lines greatest fallback. Having to search for the end of the head, then eyeball the correct amount of overhang is a real pain in the ass. I would guess about 5-7 feet.

    Also, I cannot overstate how great it is working with Poppy. I sent him one email and this line was at my office less than 24 hours later. It just doesn't get any better than that. I encourage everyone to give him as much business as you can.
     
  9. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    So true on both accounts...It drove me crazy looking for the head so got some tape out and put that on ...helped immensely, got home and took the felt pen to the line...would have been nice if I had that tube material you got with delta's...that would be even better....kind of major sucks without...
     
  10. DocDoc

    DocDoc Member

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    Permanent marker pen or some tying thread at the hold point work well for maintaining consistency.
     
  11. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    the Fall Favorite 45s I tried have the running line transition marked; with the FF70, we measured/miked/marked the head, then inked the holdpoint with a sharpie.
    the FF45 is a 110' line, the FF70 is 130', and they're both too short! LOL

    with the FF45, best to definitely have the head outside the tip, varying 1-4' overhang depending on "everything" and your preference. The 45 generates insane line speed.
     
  12. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Man....., I need to visit this thread more offner (sic)! Just think of all the ways I could learn to spend more money!!:rofl:

    Seriously tho, any youse guys got a 6/7 spey-set up for sale....or that you'd wanna donate to a worthy cauze, hehe? Yeahyeah, I know...check the classifieds....did that....nothin' I could afford, dang it!:beathead:

    JC
     
  13. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    went out this weekend (sat) to give the rods and lines a try again..this time I wanted to see how my 6/7 MKS worked with the Fall fav. that SS liked so much....at first the thing wasn't impressing me till I realized that the leader I'd had tied on had to heavy a but section...i.e. one made for more comp. style casting...once I cut that off and made my own leader with 30-20-12lb to 15' man that line did start to throw good loops and got out to one strip left on the reel with it pretty easy....Am debating on cutting a couple feet off the taper and using a real leader...but was a lot more impressed with this line then my previous experience with the W.A.

    I fished that one set up all day to get the hang of it on one of our S rivers..the wind really picked up in the afternoon but was able to still cack hand it out there pretty good in between gusts...not the whole line in wind like that but a good 12-15 strips and still maintain a tight enough loop that it wouldn't get blown up stream...even hooked a few chubby dolls with it...

    I need to call Simon and talk to him about these lines as I think if you cut the running line 15-20' down from the head and either welded a thin running line or looped it and put on mono this line could really sing some line out...also found that while I marked the end of my head a foot with marker it liked it with 3-5' of over hang to tighten the loops up...

    Thanks SS for the enthusiasm to get me to keep working with these lines..the FF is perfect for that rod..though I'd love to see how the vector is on there as well..don't need two floaters though for one rod...

    Good thread..
     
  14. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

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    I too played with the 45's this weekend. It like the 70 just wants to keep going. Great turnover. I liked it a lot and for medium sized rivers would use it. The bigger rivers require a longer head for me. Casting the whole line + will let you fish the big rivers, but man it gets to be a lot of stripping. :)
    I've been using the 70 and love it.
    Great job Simon. :thumb:
    Great posts and information guys. :thumb:
     
  15. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    Trying to remember here;Simon told me I think to use the heavier of the two (eg, a 6/7 on a 6/7 weight) on longer rods, and on faster rods with more butt, and use the lighter on shorter rods or softer rods. (eg, 5/6 on a 6/7 wt).

    problem is, I enjoyed both so much on every rod I had trouble deciding what I liked better. You cast the whole line+ with the heavier of the two, but tight effortless loops with the lighter are great too.

    One thing I'm sure of, a beginner or someone used to casting scandi or skagit only will have no trouble casting this line, and will get more consistent turnover, especially in wind. A major plus. These lines take the Windcutter out to the woodshed for a sound spanking.
     
  16. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Good point....

    Actually I looked up the line and compared it to the vector..the vector at 7/8 is 500 the 8/9 is 570

    comparably the FF at 6/7 is 550 and the 5/6 is 500...hmmmm

    I'm starting to find that for me at least these lines when close to or identical to what weight head skagit I use on um...work best...So would bet dollars to donuts that 5/6 FF could be really impressive...Kind of aggravating how these line weights are so off versus numbers...but now I'm really thinking hard on giving one or the other a shot to see..

    SS your costing me more $$$ now...:)
     
  17. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    most guys will find that they're most comfortable with a shorthead floater that weighs about the same as their preferred skagit;
    that being said, the rod and the caster will vary that widely. I tend to shift into a much more tophanded stroke when I'm casting a belly, which to me is anything more than 3.5 rod length, but I find that casting stroke more enjoyable--not necessary. I can underhand a longbelly, but for some reason I don't. My personal preference is to load the grains on and lengthen and slow the forward stroke. To each his own.
    I found right away that the Vector line ratings and FF line ratings are wholly different. Not that it matters; I line my rods by grains only and if a manufacturer doesn't advertise grains and length, I don't buy. I also like to buy rods that have a posted grain window, which tells you what will generally work best on the rod, especially the shorter ones.
    Poppy, at the RedShed in Peck, Idaho, can send trylines if you need to experiment. That's how I ended up with a FF70... which is a topic for another thread. The FF70 is a mindblower, paradigm-shifting, wader-tenting mid/longbelly....oooh ooh. Damn. Anybody got a towel?

    Simon told me with the FFs that if you have, say, a long 7/8 rod with a good butt, go with the 7/8 line, but if you have a shorter 7/8 you might like a FF6/7 better. This is true with many lines, and I've experimented with a few of the FFs on my rod collection and find it to be true. Or if you like finessing the cast, go with the lighter one, and if you want to throw the long bomb, go with the heavier.

    I'm deeply sorry about your wallet, bro. Believe me, the pain fades away fast. Usually in one billing cycle. Story of my life. I am such a line Ho.
     
  18. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Agreed on the sting..stupid thing is I should know BETTER as well...always read the grain wt. Yeah I got a scale but when buying I should really have been looking a lot more closely...Dumb on me...I'm kind of the opposite on my casting...I've been trying for awhile to take out as much top hand as I can...trying to use body rotation and a small amount of shoulder in the cast...sometimes I get it sometimes I revert back...I can see how the line weight now effects that as I was commenting to my bud that when I try pure underhand the line won't really pop out there...needs some top hand fulcrum action...Interesting stuff SS...I'll give MJ a shout and see I can bum a couple try lines from him....

    Thanks again for the info..
     
  19. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    think of the top hand as a moving fulcrum;
    the longer the belly, the longer the fulcrum must move parallel to your desired direction of cast.
    With a scandi, hardly; with a skagit, kinda;
    with a shortbelly, oughta; with a longbelly, gotta.

    This also applies to line weight. You can pop when casting from the top 2/3 of the blank. If top hand is required, the blank is asking for a lighter line or a longer stroke.
     
  20. SpeySpaz

    SpeySpaz still an authority on nothing

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    the FF45s have been put into rotation for trials, there's a thread going on Speypages.

    I've been fooling around some more and cast the FF45 against a comparable weight Vector the other day. Both were good, but were a bit light for the rod I tried them on so I ended up "horking" quite a bit, especially in wind.
    Just goes to show you, the right line also has to be the right weight.
     

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