NFR 5 Deer Hunters Shot

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by coonrad, Nov 21, 2004.

  1. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    Chris the gun was legal if it contained a 5 round clip. Still is. I don't really see a need for this type of firearm, but I am sure that others in the pro-gun camp do. Just my .02
     
  2. TANGLES

    TANGLES Richh

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    The first thing I see when I go to the forum is hunters shot. It was on TV, newspaper, radio. Yes, things are a little tense out there. So why bring it here?
     
  3. ChrisW

    ChrisW AKA Beadhead

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    Richh; the post said NFR- not fishing related. It was outdoorsmen and women who were attacked. Sometimes firearms come into play while fishing- with property rights issues, at "combat fishing" locations or in certain "free fire zones" on catch and release rivers within an hour's drive from Seattle.

    I, for one, am curious about how some people from this board will respond to this issue because it somewhat related to our activity, I think it is not inappropriate to bring it up here.

    Skip over NFR posts if these bug you

    ChrisW
     
  4. pwoens

    pwoens Active Member

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    I personally saw brand new BushMaster AR15 assault style rifle's for sale during the ban. My mom actually bought a romanian ak47 brand new during the ban. I beleive the ban focused mostly on the internal design of these weapons and the ease to convert from semi-auto to full-auto. With the ban in place the mfg's had to re-design the internals as to make it alot harder to convert the gun. They were also not allowed to produce high capacity magazines.....however previously produced magazines and guns could still be bought and sold. Thats my understanding of the ban and it may be wrong but I think its close :confused:
     
  5. ncitrez

    ncitrez Too many hobbies.....

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    ChrisW, I appreciate your questions, and you raise some valid points. As a gun owner, hunter, and anti-gun control American, however, I don't think it will do ANYONE any good to discuss the philosophy of gun control on the WFF boards. Gun Control is an issue as complex as abortion. Emotions run high, and opinions rarely change. Just my .02.
     
  6. troutfanatic

    troutfanatic A day not spent wasted is.....wasted.

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    Bob I agree with you wholeheartedly. There is a limited amount of resources available to sportsmen. The question is how did we get here so fast. Twenty, thirty years ago the fishing as I have read about it around here was fantastic. I think your idea to take turns shutting down a river or tributary one by one for a while is a great idea. Look what it did for the Cowlitz. Look what better resouce management did for the Quinalt (think this is the one were they broodstock wild steelhead and have C&R).

    As for the shooting of these hunters, I do feel that we are missing something about American culture here. We have over 10,000 shootings that result in death per year. How much does Canada have per year?...less than 100, Great Britain?...86 two years ago (I believe this is the right number), Denmark, Netherlands, and France all less than a couple hundred. Why can't we the land of the free and the home of the brave and the last superpower on earth be as gentle as the above nations.

    Something tells me we are not as great as we think we are. Oh and by the way I have been to all these places except the Netherlands. I do not know the answer but it is something we should take a look at as a society. :ray1:

    Troutfanatic
     
  7. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    Hey trout fanatic. There are as many people in New York as in all of Canada. Just something to think about when it comes down to numbers. I live in Canada and it is not the paradise it is puported to be.
     
  8. troutfanatic

    troutfanatic A day not spent wasted is.....wasted.

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    Fine then combine all the countries that I mentioned and you will get a population total equivalent to the US and then some. France alone has 60 million and Great Britain is around 75 million. By the way we have around 300 million people.

    Or if you like compare it as a percentage. Over 10,000 people DIED last year. Not just shot. We still have more deaths AND shootings than anyone else.

    Its somewhat a gun control issue, but moreso in of an societal issue IMHO.

    You never hear of an Olklahoma bombing incident in any of the countries that I mentioned.

    Some Americans have a problem.

    Troutfantic
     
  9. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    Guns are illegal in GB. They have way more stabbings then we do. :confused: People will kill people whatever the means. I think your estimations are a little bit of a hyperbole. The real deal that makes Canada and the US different is the population density. Most shootings occur in dense regions; of which there are few in Canada.
     
  10. troutfanatic

    troutfanatic A day not spent wasted is.....wasted.

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    Fine replace New Zealand and Australia and Japan and Austria for the hell of it and now you have a higher population total with less killing. And what does density have to do with people deciding to kill each other.

    Troutfanatic
     
  11. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    Population density has everythign to do with it. Urban areas comprise the vast majority of the shootings. Even if you look at it on a per capita basis.
     
  12. troutfanatic

    troutfanatic A day not spent wasted is.....wasted.

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    You don't think that London (which has not banned guns), Copenhagen, Tokyo (Japan), Sydney Australia, Quebec Canada are not comparable to the US. Actually Japan, Australia (on the southern coast), Great Britain and Quebec have the same population density or even greater in some cases, particularily Japan.

    I don't buy the idea that because we are packed tight together is the reason we kill each other so freely. Besides if you look at person per square mile we are less crowded than any of the western European countries and especially some countries in Asia.

    If you don't believe me they are plenty of gun studies of other countries comparing the US. Even an atlas will display population density.


    Troutfanatic "Not buying were crowded so will kill each other"
     
  13. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    I will see if I can find the website with the stats on it. I don't know what to tell you man. I lived in England, and you can't own handguns adn have to have special licencing for hunting rifles. Same with Canada. If the population density is take on jsut the west side of Australia you have to take the gun deaths as just from Australia as well.
     
  14. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    Most homicides (c. 60-75%) in Canada are done with something other than a firearm. One is more likely to be injured by a knife wielding attacker than a gun wielding attacker. If injured, (non fatal) knife wounds are more likely to be more serious than firearms injuries according to Statistics Canada.

    In Canada from 1961-1990, there were a total of 15,198 homicides.

    63.1% were with a non-firearm. 14.3% were with a non-restricted rifle. 13% were with a illegally owned restricted firearm. 6.5% were with a non-restricted shotgun. 2.4% were with a unidentified firearm. 0.7% were with a legally owned and registered restricted firearm.

    In 1992, there were 756 homicides(including self defense homicides) in Canada, of those, 26.19% with with firearms, that leaves 73.81% homicides by means other that a firearm.
     
  15. Monk

    Monk Redneck

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    756 that were just homicides. Your number for the US includes suicides and accidents. We can only assume that this number must be higher if we also take into consideration the suicides and accidents.
     
  16. clockwork

    clockwork New Member

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    ChrisW- id say he could have done the same damage with any other gun, be it a bolt action, lever action, pump, hell, even a single shot. high volume fire was probably not an issue here. only one guy had a gun among the casualties. take him out and you can take your time after that. he had a scope, he could simply snipe the unsuspecting victims as they came through. he didnt need such a gun as an sks. most other would do. throughout history, most sniper rifles have been bolt actions due to several factors. one being the inherint accuracy of them.

    and for the assault weapons ban?? that was just BS political posturing to buy constituents. did it do a damn thing? no. because the guns were still there, the mags were still there, no? because the criminals were still there and they still had guns and would continue to get them. our society breeds criminals like few others. what it comes down to is this: people use guns to take lives and they use them to save lives. if you outlaw guns, the only thing they will be used for is to take lives. as for the ban. you could still get just about any gun you ever wanted. you just couldnt buy them "fully equiped" brand new or imported used that way. but you could still buy hi capacity clips and such, just not with the gun. how stupid. in reality, not a huge blow to the 2nd amendment in fact, just a political one. we still bought a calico 9mm with a 100rd clip, i bought a mak 90 with a 75 rd drum. what made the maadi legal was the "sporterized stock" what a joke.
     
  17. Tom Hawkins

    Tom Hawkins Newbie is fine w/me, I havent been FFing too long

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    The inferance to "bang-pao" is not racist, no weigh, its putting light on the fact that he's doing the shootin', ie, shootin', bang-pow"......get it?......besides that, he's from Minneapolis, (easier to spell, at least I thought so at the time.....,) and now that you brought it up, those were all "white" guys, weren't they....? No discrimination there, they all had guns......equal turf so to speak.....

    They're pre-invasion planning on the deer population wasn't based on good intel, is that what your sayin'.....? Everyone on their side (the deer) is unarmed.....no resistance expected......

    An "us" vs "them" situation: whos the "us" and whos the "thems"......might make a diffo........

    If all arms are outlawed, then only the outlaws will have arms, that'll really be fair.....much safer.....too.....and that's a mighty big line to draw......even a leeetle line like outlawing "military style assault weapons"

    I think its a widely known fact that every year, more people die in traffic related ......you get the point.

    Everything said, and all being equal, it's a real American tragedy, and I feel a deep sympathy for the families of those involved, including our fellow "countryman" from Minneapolis or wherever he's from, bless all their soles. Amen.

    Personal responsibility....can be legislated, its called laws, if you FU, (foul Up), your up S*** Creek, (Said Creek)......well maybe.....

    ChrisW, your points are noteworthy but often repeated at times like this and I agree with some, but caution is to be exercised. I'm sure a lot more is going to come out of this, and we're going to hear it......but now it's MT :beer2:

    Besides that, O'Reilly is coming on and I dont wanna miss that.........

    Bartender.....!
     
  18. Tom Hawkins

    Tom Hawkins Newbie is fine w/me, I havent been FFing too long

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    Your MOM.......LOL, till I thought I'd die.....
    do ya ever take 'er fishin' wits ya......? If so, tell me where you fish....puleeze, pretty please?
    Still LOL....
     
  19. pwoens

    pwoens Active Member

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    yep...my mom....she's a gun fanatic. Hates the outdoors and fishing, but loves guns?? Always has atleast one on her also. Heck, her license plate on her acura reads something like 32beretta??? Never said I came from a normal family :ray1: :rofl:
     
  20. BOBLAWLESS

    BOBLAWLESS New Member

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    You know, I love all the guys on this board. Maybe I'm just too far into my cups but I feel a definite bond with everyone, even guys who almost always disagree with me. So what, I am probabaly wrong most of the time so they have a perfect right to say so. Good on you guys who hate me. Remember I said I loved ya even so.

    Seriously, we all love guns just like we all love fly rods (well, as in the case of Jerry, spinning rods as well). You are preaching to the choir when you say guns never kill anybody. It's the dude with the finger on the trigger.

    So let's just skip that part since we agree. But before we go, I agree totally that certain guns have no excuse for being and the longer we defend them the more suspect our whole case becomes.

    It's like the domino effect: I was supposed to die in Vietnam because if I didn't, the commies would take Thailand, then Japan, then Visalia, Ca. and then my poor little family. That theory was horseshit and we all know it know now. But thousands died because they believed it.

    I mention this because there are those of us (the NRA is a big one) who believe that if you allow a ban on assault weapons, then it will be our rifles and then our shotguns and then poor Ms. Owen's 22. cal. derringer. The domino theory again. Bunk! Let's let go of all the bad press we get all the time from these damn SKS, AK 47's etc. and limit rifles to bolt actions. Shotguns are factory plugged at three rounds period. Piss on you jack rabbit hunters who need the full seven rounds.
    We are fighting for our lives here and we can't have it all.

    The autos must go to save our ass.

    Let's get real. Either we make concessions or our ass is grass as they say.

    Bob, the Love my guns, maybe more than my fly rods. :eek:
    Hey Chris W! A tip of the hat! iagree
     

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