NFR: And now wolves in the Teanaway drainage

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Lugan, Jul 5, 2011.

  1. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    Yes they do Here in Montana they kill sheep for the fun in it. Just last year they killed over 100 sheep in one night.

    I'm not against Wolves. But not to hunt them is wrong. The packs keep getting bigger and bigger here in Montana]. They also kill cattle.
     
  2. Kaiserman

    Kaiserman Phil 4:11-13

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    KSPS did an hour long specail on the introduction of wolves. Regaurdless of were you stand on this issue, they are creating major problems for wildlife, ranchers, recreationalists, and peoples livelyhood.

    Whenever we play "Mother Nature", things don't seem to work out the way we planned. If we are going to introduce an additional predator, we need to issue licences as well don't you think? Maybe not right away, but shortly after seems logical.

    And for those "non-believers, like myself at one time, wolves are creating problems more than anticipated.
     
  3. martyg

    martyg Active Member

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    So is the issue that the wolves are "decimating" the elk and deer populations or taking them back to historic levels? It seems to me that if we eliminated an apex predator years ago the population was "artificially" high. It is great is you want the wolves removed so your hunts are more successful and you should say so, but I do not buy that they are decimating anything.

    Also, saying that the RMEF opposes wolf reintroduction doesn't actually lend a lot of credibility to their position of promoting overall health of the eco-system. Ummmm.... Let's look at where their funding comes from. Once again, great to say that it will have a negative impact on the harvest of elk and deer, but I don't buy that the "...populations are way down." Maybe from their all time highs with no pedation. But how about from the 150 year average of the carrying capacity of the environment?
     
  4. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    Check out the neat video of the wolves eating the calf moose.

    http://graywolfnews.com/
     
  5. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    Like other conservation organizations like Ducks Unlimited, Pheasants forever, Ruffed Grouse , CCA, RMEF does quite a bit to protect and ensure habitat for elk.

    As far as decimating elk, moose and deer spend some time in Idaho Montana and WY to see the damage first hand.
     
  6. Tony the Trout

    Tony the Trout Member

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    Reading this thread has me very concerned. I had no idea that ungulates in Idaho, Montana, and Wyoming were nearing extiction due to wolves. Things must have really changed over there since last time I was out that way. I recall seeing elk, deer, AND moose, but never saw any wolves. I'm sure it won't be long til wolves are the only animals left in those states. Pretty soon you won't even be able to drive from Cle Elum to Thorp without hitting a deer! And they eat their prey alive? What kind of animal doesn't have the decency to put a bullet in it's prey before consumption. I know other predators are FAR more humane with their prey. It's also a known fact that wolves ONLY kill the strong and healthy animals, leaving the sick and weak to reproduce further weakening the overall health of herd animals. Wolves in the Teanaway AND grizzlies in the N. Cascades!? We had better all get torches and pitchforks before we lose our spot on the top of the food chain. I'm just sayin...
     
  7. professori

    professori self-important blowhard!!

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    Hey folks, if the wolves are so bad for the rest of the game animals, why is it that we in BC not only have very healthy wolf packs, but great populations of cougar, bear (both black and grizzly) and yet have growing populations of deer (generally becoming a nuisance in the whole southern portion of the province), elk and moose. Having lived with wolves in the neighborhood for most of my life, I am aware of the potential for rare "frenzies" resulting in over-kills, but it is indeed a rare occurrance, not the norm. They have not "decimated" our ungulate populations here, so maybe take a deep breathe and relish in the fact that your ecosystem is showing signs of recovery.
     
  8. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    We don't own wildlife, and any attempts to sway the argument by saying "wolves are hurting MY elk hunt" or "now MY hunting grounds won't be as good" is damn arrogant and misplaced. We are stewards of the natural resources that exist both visible to us routinely, and more so for the ones that aren't. We have a responsibility to live within and act accordingly in their natural territories - man is the introduced species in the West, not the other way around; and we're far more efficient at killing wildlife than wolves will ever be.

    I don't advocate breeding wolves or placing artificial protections on them, only to respectfully provide them range. It's man's nature to kill what they fear, so why would we expect wolf populations to grow out of control? Who's afraid of the Big Bad Wolf - look in the mirror if you are.
     
  9. martyg

    martyg Active Member

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    Show me empirical data instead of a video of one occurrence. Or are you stooping to the level of PITA by playing a clip full of emotion?
     
  10. martyg

    martyg Active Member

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    Well, I guide in the Frank Church. Does that qualify?
     
  11. martyg

    martyg Active Member

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    X2.
     
  12. jumbo215

    jumbo215 Jasper hickman

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    Are these the same hybrid breed wolves that were reintroduced in montana? From what I undetstad a actual wolf reproduces at a very low rate like 1 or 2 pups that survive a year. And the hybrid test tube wolve have like 8 pups per litter? Ive also heard that actual wolves would most likely target sick or injured animals, were as the hybrid will target the young almost exclusivly. A guy I met who hunts in montana said the state actually has a very tough time convicting you of killing a wolf because you actually killed a geneticly modified dog, not a natual wolf.

    I wouldnt bet the bank on that but im curious to see how long it takes before its legal to hunt with AK s and quads.
     
  13. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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  14. Big Tuna

    Big Tuna Member

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    Wow! This is getting better and better.
     
  15. professori

    professori self-important blowhard!!

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    The wolves introduced into Montana were members of a pack extracted from Canada-they were not hybrids. Wolf litters fluctuate in size in correlation to the availability of food. i.e. if there is abundant food the alpha female will feed well and will produce numerous ova. If there is a shortage of food she will not be well-fed and in extreme circumstances will not ovulate at all.
     
  16. Benjy

    Benjy Active Member

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    I thought reintroduction was a great idea in MT and then learned the hard way what a bad idea it was. I would encourage sportsmen not to wait until it's too late- shoot them dead if they present an opportunity.
     
  17. martyg

    martyg Active Member

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    Jumbo -

    Quick note and something that I found fascinating - not to hijack the thread.... Dogs and wolves are actually two separate gene pools DNA and fossil records indicate that the early domestic dogs - those that hung around our campfires and garbage dumps when we had lower brows and higher imaginations - are significantly different than wolves. From those early domestic dogs we twisted them into things like little decorative lap dogs.

    So while re introduced wolves may have been selected based on a propensity for having large litters, they are not dogs. Nor do I think that they were genetically altered. Also Google domestic Russian silver fox - or something like that. It should lead you to a really insightful experiment regarding domestication that has been ongoing for decades.
     
  18. jumbo215

    jumbo215 Jasper hickman

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    Oh like the ones illegally dumped in yellowstone by the USFWS in 1995 who spread across five states and increased their population by 25% per year instead of the perjected 2-5% per year, hows that working out for them?
     
  19. jumbo215

    jumbo215 Jasper hickman

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    Thats not what I heard,

    http://westinstenv.org/wildpeop/?s=molloy genetics
     
  20. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    What outfitter do you guide for in ID?

    I spoke to 3 outfitters that run ops in the Frank Church area at the Portland Sportsmen Show this year and they all complained about the uncontrolled wolf expansion over there and the dwindling elk and deer pops. They have a difficult time booking hunts now. I talked to a Game Biologist hunting in unit 1 in Idaho last year and he stated that the only way now to control the wolf pops are via helicopter hunting like in Alaska

    I have no problems with wolves but states should allow a way to control their populations. At least ID was able to get a season this year. I have encountered wolves many times the past 35 years while hiking and hunting in WI, ID, Montana, Alaska, BC and Russia so do not have an irrational fear of them.

    I know first hand they do not target the weak ( myth) and often kill and leave animals only partially eaten
     

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