NFR: Demise of Livestock killing Cougar

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Itchy Dog, Apr 19, 2008.

  1. Jon Borcherding New Member

    Posts: 535
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Steve,
    You are spinning.
    Nobody ever said "Hey F.U."
    We are not in bar.
    I never suggested that your ideology was aligned with direct action environmentalism, I simply pointed out that you claim an ideology that is aligned with the man credited with inspiring direct action environmentalism. I actually thought, and still believe, that you can see the difference.

    I don't understand this question:
    I would also like to point out that you have studiously avoided each and every question I have posed to you even while I have answered all of your accusations.
    It should also be noted that you have edited every post on this thread with the exception (so far) of you last post.
    We're way too far apart to achieve anything by continuing this debate.
    I'm going to go home now and sit on my sofa with a cold drink and admire the 7' cougar rug that hangs on my wall. I hope you have nice evening too.

    JonB
  2. Todd123 New Member

    Posts: 39
    Santa Rosa, Ca
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Just a FYI, PETA want's all wolves dead, same with all other animals.

    They are not a credible animal rights group in any meens. PETA would love that the cat was killed, they have a very negative stance in relocating animals. The way people chime their name out in agruements over the internet is way out of context to what the ladys beleifs are that runs the organization.

    On the other hand there are a lot of animal rights and earth activist groups that do a lot of great stuff all around the world that most people would never devote their life to and I would think most of you would appreciate what they have acheived. Im sure the hell glad they are doing what they do because without them a lot of things would be out of balance.
  3. Abel1 New Member

    Posts: 260
    Clearview Wa
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    Oh what a awesome creature. The mountain lion has always been the apex
    predator in the forests in Washington state. This particular lion sealed his own fate when it chose to prey on livestock. I am a supporter of hound hunting and believe that it helps in the health of man and mountan lion.
  4. Itchy Dog Some call me Kirk Werner

    Posts: 3,763
    Doo-vall
    Ratings: +450 / 1
    Is anyone else dying to see what happens on Dancing with the Stars tonight?
  5. prosopium Member

    Posts: 208
    a thousand miles from nowhere
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    The key to it was "peta-like", as in ignorant and not in tune with today's society. Not to sure about wanting all wolves dead, i know they werent big on the re-introduction, because of the manipulated environment they were going into, and there biggest fear is domestication of wolves.

    Yes there are lots of good environmental groups that have done many good things, but sometimes some of those groups make poor decisions. i give my money to the FFF, rocky mountain elk foundation, and the mule deer foundation because i feel they will spend it in ways that make sense and are in the best interests of their supporters. i like things that the scierra club does, but at times they do some stupid stuff that i would be ashamed of if i knew my money had been part of it. And i dont even want to get started on the buffalo field campaign and some of these wolf groups, just pure ignorance.

    did you watch the video?
  6. Citori Piscatorial Engineer

    Posts: 1,207
    Federal Way, WA
    Ratings: +119 / 0
    I think it is Brooke's night to go on American Idol. Could you believe they voted Michael Johns off before Kristy Lee Cook?
  7. Salmo_g Active Member

    Posts: 7,569
    Your City ,State
    Ratings: +1,698 / 0
    Sorry to see a grand cat like that killed, but I think it's inevitable as suburbia pushes ever further into what were once wildlands. If cougars don't have reason to fear man, suburbia makes good habitat for prey such as deer, sheep, goats, dogs, and domestic ducks, geese, and cats. Hunting deer the way cougar do is hard work. As the cats that are pushed toward suburbia discover slow and easy prey, it makes complete ecological sense (optimal foraging theory) that they're going to taste test the alternatives. Society won't stand for that any more than they will put up with a neighbor's dog that has a penchant for killing pets or other domestic animals. Cougars that find themselves in that position through no fault of their own will be marked for death like this one was or by other legal hunts. Society accepts only so much wildlife intrusion into human habitat. I don't think it's a matter of right or wrong. It's just the way it is wherever humans are the apex predator, which is pretty much everywhere.

    Sg
  8. smc Active Member

    Posts: 383
    Up River
    Ratings: +30 / 0
    I'd like to see Paula on a cougar skin. :thumb:
  9. Mathew Ugly, but happy.

    Posts: 98
    Seattle, Wa
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I think I saw a video with something like that once.
  10. Nate Dutton I'm a teacher, I fish to eat!

    Posts: 790
    Kiana, AK
    Ratings: +2 / 0
    I can't believe i just waded through 6 pages of this crap and now i am not even going to post my thoughts because i am too tired. I guess that is what one does at 12 O'clock.
  11. Coach Duff Banned or Parked

    Posts: 1,272
    Kailua Hawaii
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    Steve, quotes and projected occurances are easy to make behind a computer screen. They are chickenshit. Your stereotyping of me and the sport I formally coached in show the shallow narrow world your mind dwells in. Cougars are beautiful, children are the future of our existence. I live and walk with courage in that I have already demonstrated that I am willing to die for the futures of both mine and (if you have any) your children. For that I can walk with my head high and my heart strong. In the meantime, you can sit behind a computer screen and demonstrate to all of us how ingnorant your attempts at educated dialogue and whimsical tongue play really are. Your Zofo sign and attempts at being one with nature stink of wanna be status. But hey the world never has enough posers! I say again, nobody's child will ever die in my presence to the shock filled bloody death a wild animal affords. Not even yours. I will die first. For our futures. Can you say that? I can. Nice try jack off. Tight lines Coach
  12. Todd123 New Member

    Posts: 39
    Santa Rosa, Ca
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    I understand that you meant PETA like, and I agree that PETA is pretty ignorant. Thier views on things greatly disagree with more creditable animal and wildlife action groups and I feel like a lot of people judge animal rights activist based on what they have heard about PETA, which is wrong and ignorant.

    I watched the video. It seems to me this guy watched this wolf for awhile personally, he had all the right to be upset that someone gunned it down for the shear purpose of ..what? At the very end of the credits it also stated that "The opinions expressed are soley those of the author" which PETA would never dare say, its their way or the highway usually. I didn't really interpret the video the way you did so I can't really relate with it being trash, I do agree it would have been better off in the wolf thread though.

    As for any group there is always a bad seed, I know there are good people on both sides, its just the way things work, to each his own.
  13. Jason Decker Active Member

    Posts: 2,626
    Issaquah, WA
    Ratings: +1 / 0
    the cougar got the same response from man that it would get from any other top predator. imagine the cougar tries to take the goat away from a Grizzly, Lion or Tiger ........ dead cougar.

    Fact is that's nature in action, if you don't like being the top species, then do us all a favor and run around naked in bear country like the idiot
    Timothy Treadwell or the naive Christopher McCandless or go off on your own Lord of the Flies /Heart of Darkness / Apocolypse Now soul journey
    Roger kills Piggy and that must piss some of you off! But Piggy had it coming, see the hunters got tired of hunting the wild boars so the fat kid was next.
    connecting the dots like this....... cougar killers must be pro-iraq war!!!:eek:

    When someone has a real problem with wildlife at their home, they can deal with it as they see fit. I commend the property owner who called it in, rather than do what most of my neighbors in rural Issaquah would have done. I grew up on 30 acres back up to Squak Mtn. and we had bears, cougars, coyotes, coons and all kinds of animals. Back then, 20-25 years ago, that area was more rural than Ben Howard Rd is today. Living next to the woods with cougars is no different than living on a busy street and having your dog run over by a speeding car...

    But that property owner has no beef to eat because he/she made a choice to live there. they may not have a soap box to stand on and complain, but they can
    eliminate the threat one way or another.

    The whole reason we all know about this because they did the right thing, then the state of washington made the kill due to a real threat, nothing else.
    had that cat not been a repeat offender, then it would be relocated. guess animal only get 2 strikes!

    don't make this into some soap opera because all of us have nothing to do about this and really won't ever have much of an opportunity, either. And if one of us happens to be in a close encounter with a cougar, safety first is always the rule and if you do, are you gonna worry about what someone will think before you act??

    it would be interesting if they shot the cougar on private property, because then, legally, the property owner does have the right to shoot it.
    They may get a wrist slap, but any decent attorney worth their bar license can make things right.

    why don't we debate the abolition of "The Mole Guy" next........":beathead:
  14. David Loy Senior Moment

    Posts: 2,436
    Wolf Bay
    Ratings: +333 / 2
    That's close to the mark.
    I sometimes scan the topics list and have noticed that by the time a topic reaches page 4, 90% odds it's a pissing match.
  15. chadk Be the guide...

    Posts: 5,057
    Snohomish, WA.
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    What's worse, shooting a cougar that has been feeding on livestock and growing bolder each time, or.... getting paid and making somewhat of a living off of taking clients to our local rivers and into our precious wilderness areas in their oil dripping and carbon emissions spewing SUVs and personally guide them into hooking and playing our majestic steelhead, trout, char, and salmon? (Are the goofy 'hero' shots and a few bucks really worth it? )

    And then teaching these people how to be more effective at catching these wonderful resources, and thus encouraging each one to spend more time targeting and harassing these treasured resources and pounding the wilderness areas with their detestable automobiles that further contribute to global warming on each long drive to the river.

    OK, so clearly that is tic - but as most have realized, we are each involved a blood sport and each impact our environment even as we try to enjoy it and maybe even make a few bucks off it in the process. We all have blood on our hands.

    The cat had to die. Sad, but true. But reality is what it is. Let's move on...
  16. Brett Angel Member

    Posts: 532
    Sammamish, WA
    Ratings: +16 / 0
    Jon,

    LIKE I SAID BEFORE, SEMANTICS AND OPINIONS (PLEASE RE-READ FIRST SENTENCE).

    There are definitely examples of anthromorphism in the exerts you posted out of context, but I don't believe humans are the only animals on the planet who can accept and teach. Just my opinion.

    ..."pathetic sympathy as a parents eulogy for a lost child"....
    I'm going to assume you're not a complete ass devoid of any type of emotion and your metaphor describing a parent's eulogy as pathetic was a oversight.

    -Brett
  17. Richard Olmstead BigDog

    Posts: 2,494
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +792 / 0
    There is an excellent article on Mountain lions in Washington state in the most recent issue of High Country News (http://www.hcn.org/servlets/hcn.Article?article_id=17639). The author discusses research on cougar population research being conducted at Washington State University.

    Their tentative conclusion is that since the ban on hound hunting, cougar populations (at least in eastern WA) have fallen. The postulate that it is because the state has subsequently given out many more permits for cougars and that most of the cats killed have been females, thus skewing the sex ratio and causing further population decline. The inference is that returning to hound hunting would be better for the cougar populations.

    For Coach's benefit, I want to point out a fact mentioned in that article. Exactly one (1) human has been killed by a cougar in Washington state and that was in 1924. Similar statistics exist for wolves. As others have pointed out in this thread, resorting to emotional arguments about the threat to human (read children's) lives when discussing management of apex predators lowers the discussion by misrepresenting the issues at play.

    Dick
  18. Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

    Coach,
    It seems that Edward Abbey dead on in his assessment of football (and their coaches) The only thing you forgot to include was a video of you beating your chest as you screamed out the words written below...:rofl:


  19. HauntedByWaters Active Member

    Posts: 2,750
    Bellingham
    Ratings: +105 / 0
    It is time for Coach and Buckner to hug and make up because this is getting way out of control.
  20. Big Tuna Member

    Posts: 1,963
    Wenatchee, Washington
    Ratings: +44 / 0
    Yup. Wanna argue about who's gonna win?