(NFR) F Exxon

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by ak_powder_monkey, Feb 19, 2008.

  1. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    Please support the plaintiffs, don't buy exxon mobile products
  2. Porter

    Porter Active Member

    F Exxon

  3. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

    F Exxon

    I'm kinda dumb, what does this all mean? Oil spills?
    And I haven't bought any Exxon produces since the Valdees.
    Thanks for the education.
  4. Ryan Francis


    F Exxon

    I'm confused also...
  5. Bruce Davidson

    Bruce Davidson formerly hatman

    F Exxon

    I'm not the expert here, but I checked on the Exxon Valdez fiasco and it happened on March 24, 1989. So I'm guessing that this depicts the timeline of the oil spill migration.
  6. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

    F Exxon

    Spill migration makes sense.
  7. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

    F Exxon

    On a somewhat related note, back in the 70s I was with NOAA and a friend I sailed with was Rick Steiner. After NOAA, I continued to visit Rick in Corvalis and Depot Bay while he was completing his doctorate in oceanography. After working in fisheries for a while, he settled in Cordova and was a commercial fisherman when the spill happened. As you know, it wasn't long before the company spin doctors were discounting damages. Rick was the right man in the right place at the right time and took them to task! Not singlehanded for sure but I was pretty proud of him for stepping up to the plate, on camera, and calling bullshit. He was a star witness with all the degrees you could ask for. He's a prof at the U of A now.
    Just some trivia.
  8. ChrisW

    ChrisW AKA Beadhead

    F Exxon

    I think he's referring to the Supreme Court case regarding the penalty that Exxon has been refusing to pay?

    They paid for the "cleanup" but not the $2.5B in punitive damages
  9. Dick Warnke

    Dick Warnke was Pram-Man

    F Exxon

    And they keep posting record profits....:mad:
  10. Adam Taylor

    Adam Taylor Member

    F Exxon

    did a quick search..thought folks would be interested in reading. Check out the highlight in red.

    Supreme Court to review Exxon Valdez award
    The high court will determine if the $2.5 billion in punitive damages owed for the 1989 Alaska oil spill is excessive.
    By Bill Mears, CNN Supreme Court Producer
    October 29 2007: 2:04 PM EDT

    NEW YORK (CNN) -- The Supreme Court will decide whether a $2.5 billion punitive damages award against Exxon Corp. -- now Exxon Mobil -- for its role in the 1989 Exxon Valdez oil spill in Alaska was excessive.

    The justices agreed to hear the case Monday, and oral arguments will be held sometime next year.

    The suit was brought by fishermen, landowners, local governments and native Americans who claimed private economic harm from the spill. The company claimed it had already paid many millions in government fines, as well as $3.4 billion in cleanup costs.

    A jury originally awarded $5 billion in 1994. A federal court later cut that amount in half, but it still was believed to be the largest punitive damages judgment of its kind in U.S. courts.

    Much of the initial blame in the accident was placed on Capt. Joseph Hazelwood, whose alcohol abuse was found to have contributed to mistakes that let the ship to run aground. The company and the plaintiffs used different arguments when citing Hazelwood's actions, in efforts to boost their respective cases.

    The issue was whether, based on past high court precedent limiting punitive awards, the judgment was too high. The company argues it should not have to pay any damages, and that the case has dragged on too long. Special maritime laws govern these kinds of disputes, and previous such cases will be important benchmarks when the justices grapple for a ruling.

    Lawyers for the plaintiffs said the company has deep financial pockets, and even a multibillion-dollar judgment amounts only to "barely more than three weeks of Exxon's net profits."

    Exxon Mobil (Charts, Fortune 500) issued a news release saying it welcomes the Supreme Court's decision.

    "This case has never been about compensating people for actual damages. Rather it is about whether further punishment is warranted in a case where the company voluntarily compensated most plaintiffs within a year of the spill, and has spent over $3.5 billion, including compensatory payments, cleanup payments, settlements and fines. We do not believe any punitive damages are warranted in this case," according to the news release issued by company spokesman Tony Cudmore.

    "It is also important for the Supreme Court to uphold long-standing maritime law that provides that ship owners are not liable for punitive damages based upon conduct by the ship-master who disregarded the owner's rules and policies," the company said in the statement.

    The high court has generally tried to limit punitive damages that are deemed "excessive." Last term, it threw out a $79 million award to an Oregon smoker's family who claimed tobacco giant Philip Morris contributed to his death by cancer. The justices, in their divided ruling in that case, said in most cases punitive damages should match "actual" damages.

    In the Exxon case, a federal appeals court said the company should be given some credit for paying for the cleanup costs.

    The case is Exxon v. Baker (07-219). A ruling is expected by late June.
  11. 509

    509 New Member

    F Exxon

    Punitive damages are a simple way to transfer money to trial lawyers like John Edwards. Washington state law does not allow for punitive damages.

    If the Exxon officials are guilty of criminal acts in the oil spill....throw them in jail. That will fix the problem quicker than punitive damages.

    The people that will pay the punitive damages award will be those pumping gas at the pump.

    I am tired of transfering my money to trail lawyers!!! But hey, I remember the class action lawsuit against Toshiba disk drives....I got a floppy disk, the trial lawyers got 40 million. Oh, I never did have the problem that Toshiba settled out of court.
  12. Kevin J. Burnham

    Kevin J. Burnham Active Member

    F Exxon

    509, Right on !!!!
  13. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

  14. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

    F Exxon

    I haven't purchased anything from Exxon since the Valdez spill. The cleanup crew did in fact send three barges of crude to Seattle that they had sucked up off of the beaches. In addition to spilled crude it also contained dead birds, sea otter carcasses, etc. A group that I was involved at the time, Northwest Citizens for Environmental Responsibility (since disbanded) raised hell forcing Exxon to tow the barges through the Panama Canal to New Jersey where it was accepted for treatment.
    I agree that punitive damages aren't the answer. Having those Exxon execs leaving their offices in handcuffs with their coats over their heads as they led off to jail it what should happen.
    Les Johnson
  15. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    I dare not post. It brings out my dark side. I have a strong ill will toward bad guys.
  16. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

    F Exxon

    Hate to burst your bubble, 509, but the amount of damages - punitive or otherwise - that will go to the plaintiffs lawyers in this case is but a fraction of the total potential award. Granted, they stand to earn a pretty penny, but at this point I don't think any of them have seen a dime and they've invested literally millions of their own dollars to pursue this case. I do agree that there is a lot of abuse by class action lawyers where the plaintiffs end up getting nothing other than a $20 gift certificate or something equally worthless (like equitable relief but no $$), but this is not one of those cases. The vast majority of any damage award in this case is going into the pockets of the people who actually suffered the harm.
  17. Ethan G.

    Ethan G. I do science.. on fish..

    Well, until the officials are basicaly seen killing someone in broad daylight, I don't think they're gonna go to jail. We are way too laxed about white collar crime.
  18. Jon Borcherding

    Jon Borcherding New Member

    I think it's kind of interesting that so much of this case hinges on the alleged alcoholism of the captain and Exxon’s culpability in allowing Hazelwood to continue as a captain even though he was supposedly a known alcoholic.
    What about the rest of the chain of command aboard the Exxon Valdez?

    Who was at the helm at the time of the grounding?

    YES! I understand that the captain has the ultimate responsibility. I'm certainly NOT questioning that. However, the course of events immediately prior, and subsequent, to the grounding begs the questions:

    Are supertankers operated with just ONE competent officer on board?

    Are there currently supertankers in operation that we can expect to be run aground if the captain is disabled or debilitated for any reason?

    What measures have been put in place since 1989 to rectify this situation?

    Since no amount of money can replace or repair the damage done by this kind of catastrophe it is vitally important that changes are made in the way that tankers are operated. Does anyone know if these changes have been implemented?

    I recall a lot of discussion about double wall tankers and other measures to strengthen ship hulls. I submit that the problem was systemic within the chain of command.

    On a side note I was in Valdez with a very good friend who wrote her anthropology Masters thesis on the difference between man made and natural catastrophe based on the city of Valdez and the manner in which it handled the Alaska earthquake (which destroyed the city) and the Exxon spill. Both incidents occurred on Good Friday, 25 years apart.
    It was a very interesting study.

  19. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member


    I think it's more than Hazelwood's alcoholism. It's that it was known to Exxon officials and accepted as part of a culture of alcohol use on board the tanker. Where was the rest of the crew? Apparently some were drinking with Hazelwood. I think it's that cultural acceptability of drinking on duty that nails Exxon's culpability.

  20. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    F Exxon

    If they rule for actual damages with inflation exxon will be paying 10s of billions of dollars to the 30,000 plaintiffs. Plus how does one put a price on divorces and suicides?

    Hopefully the court doesn't do what I think it might and actually hold a corporation responsible for their actions.

    Also in case you missed it everyone in the oil industry from the producers, to the state, to the feds, to ALYESKA (pipeline people) said a spill would never happen since the pipeline project was concieved. Remeber that when pebble mine comes for permits.