NFR: No Solution, just dead kids...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Go Fish, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Don't forget a 50 round magazine, or better yet, a few pockets full of those magazines.
     
  2. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    I'm willing to pay more if needed. On the other hand, we already have one of the highest incarceration rates in the world. Maybe we are exceptionally crazy as a nation (how's that for "American exceptionalism"?). Better yet, we need to re-prioritize our gov't budgets at every level anyway, so we should throw mental health into the mix for sure in an overall budget re-do. A topic for another thread probably.
     
  3. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    I don't think this is a topic for another thread. Mental illness and the lack of funds is playing a significant part in the recent killing rampages. You must look at the root cause and not just the gun. Both must be addressed yet the majority of posts on this thread have to do with gun control and nothing to do with the root cause.
     
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  4. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Agreed! I just meant re-doing the whole gov't budget is probably for another thread.
     
  5. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Someone in this thread noted that Australia banned assault weapons after a massacre in the 1990's. There was some kind of buy-back program called NFA afterward. It appears it had a good effect:

    "For Australia, the NFA seems to have been incredibly successful in terms of lives saved. While 13 gun massacres (the killing of 4 or more people at one time) occurred in Australia in the 18 years before the NFA, resulting in more than one hundred deaths, in the 14 following years (and up to the present), there were no gun massacres.

    "The NFA also seems to have reduced firearm homicide outside of mass shootings, as well as firearm suicide. In the seven years before the NFA (1989-1995), the average annual firearm suicide death rate per 100,000 was 2.6 (with a yearly range of 2.2 to 2.9); in the seven years after the buyback was fully implemented (1998-2004), the average annual firearm suicide rate was 1.1 (yearly range 0.8 to 1.4). In the seven years before the NFA, the average annual firearm homicide rate per 100,000 was .43 (range .27 to .60) while for the seven years post NFA, the average annual firearm homicide rate was .25 (range .16 to .33).

    "Additional evidence strongly suggests that the buyback causally reduced firearm deaths. First, the drop in firearm deaths was largest among the type of firearms most affected by the buyback. Second, firearm deaths in states with higher buyback rates per capita fell proportionately more than in states with lower buyback rates.

    "One evaluation of the law concluded that: The rates of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the gun laws; there is no evidence of substitution for suicides or homicides.2 A more recent evaluation, which examined the differences across states, concluded that "the buyback led to a drop in the firearm suicide rates of almost 80 per cent, with no significant effect on non-firearm death rates. The effect on firearm homicides is of similar magnitude, but is less precise".4 This incredible size of the effect (80% reduction) strains credulity."

    Full study: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/files/bulletins_australia_spring_2011.pdf

    Or maybe Aussies got dramatically less crazy concurrent with the ban and buy-back.

    And by the way, so far the UN hasn't invaded Australia, nor has the Oz government turned on its citizens to deprive them of their freedoms. This experience matches the rest of the developed and democratized world. But maybe we are different.
     
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  6. mr. bad example

    mr. bad example Member

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    it scares me that I've become this cynical, but I'm willing to bet that bushmaster's sales will takeoff for all the wrong reasons.
     
  7. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    Got ya! I scares the hell out of me when they are letting dangerous criminals loose in Eugene because they claim there are no funds to keep them in jail. I think the problem is related.
     
  8. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    Serious question for the WFF members who seem to have expertise in mental health (before I Bing-Google it myself): Does the US have a substantially higher rate of mental illness? If higher, how much higher?
     
  9. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    You're getting a bit over the top there, no exploding ammo is available to any but the military and it's not made for small arms. When you start seeing RPG's on the streets, run for the hills. BTW, it doesn't matter how we got here, it matters where we go from here.
     
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  10. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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  11. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    Cheeseburger?
     
  12. Jerry Daschofsky

    Jerry Daschofsky Moderator Staff Member

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    Please don't tell me what I do and don't know. Its called a generalization. Because its usually true. Rarely is anything 100% but you know damned well I'm pretty much on the mark. I can give you a thousand examples of things that are usually true. Just because there are exceptions to the rule doesn't make my reference off mark. And not pissed over debate its just peak lol. And doesn't matter politics is politics. We've shut down tons of posts with good content because if it. So if I see a political bashing the thread us coming down. Got it folks? And parking those who do it at same time.
     
  13. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    Condoms?

     
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  14. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

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    I was sloppy with that word; didn't mean to be dramatic. Should've written "fragmenting" or similar.
     
  15. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

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    automobile. especially while eating cheeseburgers.
     
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  16. Jim Ficklin

    Jim Ficklin Genuine Montana Fossil

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    First & foremost, our thoughts & prayers should be focused on those affected by this tragedy. I’ve been offering my prayers since it occurred & will continue to do so.

    That being said, guns aren’t at fault, the NRA . . . the Second Amendment Foundation . . . the Right to Keep & Bear Arms Association . . . or any other gun group isn’t responsible. The perpetrator was responsible. Nor do any of these organizations owe anyone an apology, other than thoughts & prayers offered as individuals. What these orgs are responsible for, like them or not, is that of playing a huge role in ensuring that legitimate firearm owners can still own firearms. You may not all be members, but all gun owners have reaped the benefits of their efforts.

    I own lots of guns . . . some are AR platforms, an AK, an M-1, an M-1 Carbine, several 1911s, and a variety of semi-auto “other” arms, including what the media would describe as “high-powered, scoped ‘sniper’ rifles.” They all live in secure vaults. I use them for predator hunting, target shooting, 1,000-yard target shooting, other hunting, personal protection purposes, and collecting. Because you personally don’t own an AR, an AK, a “something else,” that doesn’t make these bad or candidates for sacrifice. I’m sure some political-agenda, anti-gun legislation will follow in the wake of this disaster, but I also hope that our “leaders” will finally focus on the real issues of mental health, school security, liberal judges, the glorification of violence in movies, on TV, in song lyrics, drugs, gangs, continuous promotion of tragic event newscasts for the sake of ratings, and the general moral & ethical decay prevalent in America. Not to mention the greater focus on “stars” and less on real role models.

    It’s interesting that the first newscasts focused on exactly which guns were used, but of course we ARE in the age of liberal media with an agenda. Old guys . . . ask yourselves what has changed since we were kids in the ’50s & ‘60s . . . there were M-1s, M-1 Carbines, 1911s, Hi-Powers, Lugers, Brownings, Walthers, riot guns, and other “military” arms. The answer would be societal changes. There wasn’t a viral outbreak of mass shootings. I’ve yet to see one of these mass shootings precipitated by someone my age. Go figure.

    Again, I feel bad that the focus of this thread has shifted from where it should be . . . thoughts, prayers, and consideration for the victims & their families, but I now feel compelled to defend my Second Amendment rights. If enough gun owners wish to compromise theirs (and mine), I know where that blame will reside. But since the focus has shifted & I now feel obligated to defend my right to own the gun/guns of my choosing against those who would seek to compromise those rights AS WELL AS the right to provide for the personal defense of myself & those I love against those who would intend harm . . . to quote Benjamin Franklin: "We must all hang together, or assuredly we shall all hang separately." Throw my choice of firearm under the bus, and your preference will surely follow.
     
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  17. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    But they did elect a female, atheist Prime Minister. I'm sure no one there knows what's right or wrong any more...

    D
     
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  18. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    Exactly. Us atheists are a scary lot, not to be trusted.
     
  19. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

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    Jim I don't know how old you are but Sep 6 1949 a 28 year old army vet gunned down 13 in Camden NJ. August 26, 1986 a 44 year old postal worker gunned down 14 in Edmond Oklahoma. August 1 1966 a 25 year old former Marine gunned down 16 at UT Austin. July 18, 1984 a 41 year old gunned down 21 in a Calfornia McDonalds. 1991 a 35 year old shot 23 at Lubys cafeteria in Texas.

    The root causes of this problem have been around a lot longer than the "general ethical and moral decay prevalent in America."

    Be the role model you complain about not having. Understand that freedom means freedom of the press, religion, to peacefully assemble (including in schools) and the right to petition the government to redress grievances. What constructive solutions do you propose for preventing domestic terrorists who are not playing by any rules?

    These shooters aren't guys who give a shit about TV shows, or glory, or liberal judges, or liberal media. These are isolated and volatile psychopaths who live in a fringe world alien to the vast majority of us. These shooters are stuck with little social insight or empathy, period.
     
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  20. ribka

    ribka Active Member

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    168 killed in Oklahoma with diesel fuel and fertilizer . 8 times more than the CT school shootings.

    Maybe a rational discussion to ban those items too

    And If you purchase a firearm I sure hope you take firearms safety training class or a hunter safety training.



     
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