Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Go Fish, Dec 14, 2012.
That is Awesome Mumbles!!!!!
I'm guessing there is some PTSD among gun owners from past decades of gun control fights in which anti-gun people were very anti-gun, and wanted to ban all guns. As you say Craig, this thread doesn't entail that tone with a few exceptions. But Ribka's and others' reactions make sense when you consider the long-term context they are coming from.
I wouldn't be too opposed to making it much more difficult to get a high capacity semi-auto rifle, but no type of on-going permitting (huge fees) like fully auto rifles should be included.
This makes sense to me.
Every journey begins with one step.
...and here I thought this much beloved thread had finally been retired. What's the current tally of pro vs. anti up to now?
Has anyone checked the price of any of these semi auto assault look alike rifles lately? As if coughing up the equivalent to a months rent isn't difficult enough? Plus ammo for these things isn't exactly cheap either. The gun grabbers will use any excuse to keep nibbling away at the second amendment. And then they'll say "we didn't get everything we wanted, but it's a start" Gun control only effects people who obey the law. And the last time I checked, murder was also against the law. Charles Manson & his gang didn't have one gun among them. They killed a lot of people. They are still living better than ever on our dime. There is something wrong with the system!
As a combat veteran who served many years with, and defended the lives of many racial, ethnic groups, religious groups, would be interested in the racial card you are playing
Please be specific regarding my racial attacks. My fishing partner, who happens to be black, would love for you to list my racial attacks.
I just showed him your post and he laughed
Ahhh the "Race Card". When folks that disagree with you, or have no factual leg to stand on....usually pull out the "race" card to scare you off. It's just some folks knee-jerk reaction any more.
Will somebody E-mail me when this debate gets sorted out so I will know who won?
the guys with the guns will win...how can it work out any other way?
Lets not have this thread devolve into useless bullshit. The topic deserves better. Start a conversation if you feel the need to sling crap.
I don't disagree, but you better believe some change is coming. Why not let it be something that makes some sense like making it a tougher process to get a gun?
As for the price, I agree there too which is why I said there should NOT be a special fee to go along with said guns. I agree with a more strict application process (for any gun), but not fees for the privilege to own them.
If the process to legally purchase and possess guns gets too restrictive there will be an increase in illegal arms out there. These "new criminals" would be easier to find and prosecute and the current criminal element would only enjoy enhanced invisibility. Just my thought. I'd rather see some effort turned up to get illegal weapons away from criminals. They don't care about law violations. They don't seem to value life.
At time of writing this 1/8/13, here's a list of gun deaths since Newton 12/14/12: 7 kids, 27 teens, 609 adults
"Charles Manson and his gang didn't have one gun among them. They killed alot of people. They are living better than ever on our dime." If you really believe living in that concrete and steel cell is "better than ever" you're dumber than a box of rocks.
Multiply that times five and you will have the approximate tally for those killed in automobile accidents. Yet nobody wants to ban/restrict those 505 hp Corvettes with top speeds in excess of 190mph despite posted speed limits nationwide. I think we can live with cars whose top speed is limited to 80mph and horsepower to weight ratio closer to that found in your average pick-up truck.
If the point here is to save lives, banning or restricting the sale of high capacity magazines, auto-loading rifles and carbines won't do it. Period. More gun related deaths are from low-cost handguns that carry less than 20rnds of ammunition than any other platform. However there is that nasty little Bill of Rights getting in the way of banning or restricting the sale or ownership either weapon system.
We need to examine America's propensity towards violent and sociopathic crimes rather than trying to eliminate the tools employed. Ever wonder how all those 18-22 year old kids with military grade magazine and belt fed weapons manage not to kill each other off downrange despite the wide availability of arms and ammunition? I mean hell the in-service murder rate overseas is almost 1/1000th the national average, but surely with so many kids with such varied backgrounds should be killing each other off left & right because everyone has at the minimum, an M4 and a 30rnd mag. At least, according to Sen Feinstein's logic that should be happening, but it isn't.
We don't live in utopia, there are evil people in this world who want to do evil things and will do so in any fashion that is feasible. Criminalizing the millions of responsible owners of military style weapons is the wrong answer. It won't save lives, it won't make us safer, and won't make us better as a country. No society that reaches a population density or size similar to ours is EVER exempt from violent crime. So how can we, as a people, prevent such tragedies from occuring?
MY answers are those that people don't want to listen to, because it will take time and take a lot of work from each of us. It wouldn't be easy, and wouldn't happen overnight.
1. Allow ALL local, state, and federally employed workers to carry concealed on the job. HOWEVER, those that do carry must past a competency exam annually or quarterly which would involve; marksmanship, evacuation procedures, first aid, crime scene sanitization protocol, citizen's arrest protocol, and handling of prisoners. This condition is regardless of holding a CCW, but if they do not hold a CCW they cannot cary concealed in their "off" time.
2. Require ALL police department's whose city/county population is at or in excess of 5,000 be required to have plans implemented for MASSCAL and active shooter response to any location which would have no less than 50 people at any given time of day. Annual drills, and state/federal review of these plans would be required in order for that department to continue receiving state or federal funding.
3. Enable CCW carriers to be deputized as public safety officers. These deputies would have jurisdiction statewide and be required to pass the same competency exams as Government employees. This deputization would enable these citizens to open carry, but have to participate in the MASSCAL and active shooter response drills with their local, county or state PD once every 3 years in order to renew their deputization.
If ANY of these conditions had been met in the states where mass shootings were involved I do believe these shootings would have been prevented. The total cost to do this would be very very small, but require a great number of man/woman-hours to train for these scenarios and test the capabilities of PSOs and PDs. But I honestly think this would be the best solution for ourselves, and our children.
I'm not saying it should get super restrictive, but right now I can walk in to a store, show an ID, and walk out with a rifle/shotgun in under 30 minutes. Seems maybe a bit too easy. I haven't thought through all the details, but I like the idea of being licensed to own guns. Just like a drivers license you have to take a series of tests (background check, gun safety, compentancy test, etc) and end up with a "gun owners license". Once you have that you can go down to any place that sell guns and ammo and buy whatever you want with no wait.
I don't believe this will stop most mass shootings as they usually steal legal guns from family, but there are plenty in the past that went down and bought a weapon prior to a shooting. This system would help with that, but more importantly I think it would make a more responsible owner/user group overall. I also agree that laws only apply to law abiding citizens, and criminals don't follow the law (by definition). However, most of the young messed up people that do these crimes aren't tapped in to the black market gun trade and almost always use a "legal" gun whether it's their own or a family members.
The root cause solutions and everything else have been discussed previously in this thread so no need to go back in to those.
An interesting video. Regaurdless of your politics, this is the type of annalysis congress should be doing rather than making knee jerk policy with no reasoning.
I wasn't going to come back to this post but I have to say it one more time. Laws do nothing to prevent crime, only punish after the fact. (that is if you don't have a failed judicial system that lets repeat offenders back on the street.) When you need a cop now they're always 10 to 15 minutes away and can't do anything after the deed is done to make it right.
History must have passed many of you by in school. If you can't see where this country is headed, your head is firmly in the sand. This administration is just the tip of the iceberg. It's as open and transparent as a brick wall. More whistleblowers have been prosecuted under a WW1 statute than by all previous administrations. It's OK to rat on a company, but not the White House. Say the wrong thing and you'll get arrested and jailed with no reason and no hurry to process the case. Don't worry about that drone over your neighborhood, it's not armed...yet. BTW, the drones in Afghanistan are still killing civilians, but that OK it's collateral damage. Those kids are as dead as the ones in Sandy Hook.
It's all about control, and we have a fine collection of sheep these days. Give them their smart phones, TV reality shows, GMO processed foods, some booze, a football game or other sport and they're happy. Honey Boo-boo is happy...and Kim has great ta-ta's. Lets not forget Halo4 for the 8 year olds to play. We're up to our necks in $hit and can't smell it. But thank goodness the LGBT community is taken care of and a little weed never hurt anyone. Keep 'em stoned, they won't know any better. Last but not least it's great that the atheists can put up bill boards saying God is dead and Merry Winter.
Out of curiosity, what will the sheep do when the real shit hits the fan? Wish they had a gun, or just shit their diapers?
Every day I hope I'm wrong, that I've read the tea leaves incorrectly, but the next day there's more proof I'm not wrong.
You're living a pipe dream if you think these gun laws will be anything less than the first step to disarm law abiding Americans. Pleasant dreams...
Manson & crew were hippies. A bunch of homeless, unemployed bums scrounging for anything they could get their hands on to survive. They now have a roof over their heads, 3 squares a day & access to a lot of amenities they never had before. So yeah, better than "they" ever had it before.
Dartmonkey: At least you are able to see beyond all the smoke & mirrors, stare reality in the face, and come up with some solutions other than more gun restrictions. Hats off to you for that. As long as the solutions are worded as enable, allow and volunteer, rather than require, demand, and add to the deficit, I'm willing to listen.