NFR: No Solution, just dead kids...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Go Fish, Dec 14, 2012.

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  1. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    I am just sad. I have not seen my girls today. I will see them in the morning and will kiss and hug them tightly. I may weep again, like I did when the news broke. My condolences to those families, to the surviving children, to all impacted by his horrible incident. Just before Christmas families have packages wrapped for their deceased children. They will never truly recover. I can only hope that some of our prayers and support has an impact.
     
  2. loganmike

    loganmike Member

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    Buying 4 licenses from now on!
    I am an educator. Feel free to elaborate. I would love to understand what you mean.

    However, education starts at home. That is a major point of failure in our society. The home should quit helping shooters!
     
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  3. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

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    Already codified into law.
     
  4. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    you answered your own question Sir.
     
  5. loganmike

    loganmike Member

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    Got it. Best to you and yours.

    Me
     
  6. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

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    Not exactly true. Automatic weapons are regulated by the National Firearms Act of 1934. There is a higher, much higher bar, one must pass to purchase and possess these weapons. They're also commonly referred to as "Class III" weapons. The only class III weapons Washingtonians can legally possess and fire are silencers, not automatic weapons, or short barrel rifles (SBR's). Here's a link to wikipedia's broad explanation of the NFA of 1934, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Firearms_Act.
     
  7. Jim Welch

    Jim Welch Veni, Vidi, Fishi

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    Wonder why there aren't any shootings like this at police stations and gun stores, hmmmm... try googling how many crimes have been stopped by guns?

    Richard, comparing the US to England is not comparing apples to apples, lets compare England before and after gun laws were enacted and places in the US before and after gun laws were enacted. England passed a gun control law in 1968 and the homicide per million people (per capita) has averaged 52% higher since, in DC the handgun ban and triggerlock law became effective in 1976 the CD murder rate averaged 73% higher than it was at the outset of the law (www.justfacts.com/guncontrol.asp), since the outset of the Chicago handgun ban, the percentage of Chicago murders committed with handguns averaged about 40 percent higher than it was before the law took effect. justfacts is not an conservative or liberal advocacy organization.

    Interesting those stories about Wisconsin and Oregon with so many guns in gun racks at school in the 50's and 60's, might they have had a detrimental effect on anyone that wanted to go around shooting up classrooms?

    lets peg it like it really is, some sick whacko decided to take out a bunch of kids at a school, if he didn't have access to guns, might he have used some other means (think Timothy McVey with fuel oil and fertilizer)? This gun control debate is specious at best, free societies can only exist amongst a moral peoples, all the laws in the land will not stop someone who is hell bent on hurting someone, I consider moral relativism and media bias a bigger threat to a free way of life than guns.

    Criminals prefer their victims to be unarmed.
     
  8. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    I guess we are all equally enranged at this event regardless of our political positions, and want to strike out at somebody, i admit that on my part. Working at a school myself, i worry more about how do we stop the guy at the front door, vs root causes, etc etc etc
     
  9. mtskibum16

    mtskibum16 Active Member

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    I know just trying to keep it simple and correcting his thoughts that the average black gun you see in the store is automatic. But yeah, you are correct.
     
  10. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

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  11. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

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    Our planet rocks. But sadly, our world sucks.
     
  12. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    Went fishing today. When I got home, well, it really matters very little to me at this time that I went fishing. I didn't go in and hug my guns but I did call my son and ask about my grand children and ask that he hug them for me. I cannot fathom how the parents of those poor children can deal with this. I cannot understand.
     
  13. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    Jim -
    I'm not going to try to rebut all of your points, but I would caution against citing correlations and jumping automatically to causation.

    Let's take a closer look at one of your examples.

    During the interval you cite in D.C. (1976-2009), all manner of criminal activity was elevated, including burglary, car theft, and others where guns were neither used nor likely to be a deterrent (http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/dccrime.htm). However, after that big spike, by 2009 those crime rates (along with murder and other crimes involving guns and where gun ownership might be a deterrent), had dropped back to levels well below what they were in 1976, when those laws were put in place. So, I don't think the correlation you cite here has any causative relevance to the crime rates. I think someone who wanted to do so, could spin those stats to say exactly the opposite of what you would like them to say, and that it just took some time for those rates to drop.

    Dick
     
  14. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

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    Perhaps you (we) cannot understand it because it is not rational. It is not sane.
    Best that we cannot, maybe. Many sad Christmas memories in Connecticut, for a long time to come.
     
  15. Bradley Miller

    Bradley Miller Dances with fish

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    My wife teaches kindergarten. I learned of this tragedy here on WFF: got home this afternoon, fired up the computer, staight to WFF, saw this thread.............called my wife and couldn't even talk about it through the tears. Anyway; this will be a tide of sadness that will last generations.
     
  16. Jim Welch

    Jim Welch Veni, Vidi, Fishi

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    Dick, thats my point about comparing the US and England, you can spin them anyway you like and there are many other factors involved with the differences than just gun laws or gun access. If you really wanted to use a demographic that has the lowest intentional murder rates in the world look at Muslim countries, so lets all convert to Islam and case solved! (now as far as being a female in those countries, not so good).
     
  17. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    You can have a more rational conversation with a jihadist Muslim about cartoons of The Prophet than you can with a gun nut about sensible gun control measures. So much for a well regulated militia.
     
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  18. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

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    no you cant, because the Jihadist will kill you, the gun nut will likely walk away from you.
     
  19. GAT

    GAT Dumbfounded

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    My plan was to become a research physiologist. That didn't happen but I am familiar with those who have mental disorders. One of my fishing buddies was a practicing psychologist and consultant for the police. He once told me there are people walking around free who should be locked up.

    My mother inlaw suffered from deep depression and wanted to buy a handgun because she didn't like one of her neighbors. My wife and I thought it would be a simple matter to explain that she was in a mental health program and should not be allowed to buy a gun. It was not a simple matter. My wife had to go to court and testify against her own Mom so they would send her to a mental hospital. That they did.

    We went to visit her and she was so doped up, she could hardly speak. We asked her if she was talking with someone (a shrink) and she said yes but only once. Basically, she was in a warehouse, not a hospital.

    My wife was so angry that her Mom wasn't receiving the help she needed, she called the "hospital" and complained. Their solution was to let her Mom go!

    I think when this all shakes out, we'll find that this guy was mentally off and most likely on some manner of meds. If he stopped taking his meds, he flipped out.

    I have a friend with a step brother who is bi-polar and stays with his Mom (same as this guy did). When he took his meds, he was okay but he'd stop taking them from time to time and flip out.

    Therefore, I think some of the problem in this case is our mental health care... or lack of it.

    Evidently, it takes an act of God to keep someone in a mental institution. As a result, we have folks with serious mental problems sitting around like a ticking time bomb. The clock finally clicked down to zero for this guy.

    It's easy to blame the guns but they were all legally owned by his mother. Why she thought she needed an assault rifle may be a story in itself but I believe, there's a mental issue that is not handled properly by our system. Some folks are so mentally ill they should not be roaming the streets because sooner or later, they will go off their meds. We need to take a serious look at how mental patients are handled in this society. From what I've seen and heard, the system dumps the patient out on the streets instead of keeping them safe from themselves and others.

    Of course the mental professionals will claim that just like prisons, they don't have the funds to keep people locked up. If they rely on taxes, then there you have it. People don't want to pay taxes to fund prisons and mental health hospitals so we get what we get.

    That's my take on the situation. The gun is a tool. Just like a knife, a baseball bat or a bomb. The person is the problem.
     
  20. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    I would like to point out that my guns have killed less people than Ted Kennedys car. So should we ban politicians from driveing? passing laws changes nothing , you have to change additudes & enforce responsability to affect a change.
     
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