NFR: No Solution, just dead kids...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Go Fish, Dec 14, 2012.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. P.Dieter

    P.Dieter Just Another Bubba

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2004
    Messages:
    744
    Media:
    3
    Likes Received:
    199
    Location:
    Seattle.
    Home Page:
    The hypocrisy of the past 24 hrs is monumental. In the past 6 years all of us have championed the killing of TEN TIMES this number of children in drone attacks just in N Pakistan. As well as hundreds more inocent adults.

    Aside from the fact that we really don't care about killing these children as they are so different from us in appearance and culture there is a much greater hyprocricy that actually harms us. To the media's credit they are looking hard at the emotional and psycological impact that this has on the whole community and even the nation as a whole. Yet after tears of raining down this same type of death and distruction on a regular basis we don't seem to grasp why these foreigner act so strangely, why they don't even seem to think the same way as us. They are even so backwards that they don't even seem to value life like we do.

    I know this isn't politically correct and I know that most resist empathy at this level but I just ask that as we mourn this tragity and empathize with the survivors we also consider what it might be like to live with this level of slaughter on an ongoing/daily basis and then consider that each one of us condones it and funds it and calls those who pull the trigger heros.

    Pissing and moaning about gun rights/control becomes pretty asinine at that point.

    http://livingunderdrones.org/
     
    Jim Wallace, dfl and Bert like this.
  2. gearhead

    gearhead Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2004
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    42
    Location:
    Renton, wa
    This is all great information, but regardless of funding, cause, cost and effort, we are a Nation of 300 million, there are something like 275 millions guns in this country, with a 100 million people who own or have access to them. on average, annually, 20 nut jobs go into a work place, or school, or living room and gun down a mass of persons. i'm not worried about the 100 million, i'm worried about those 20 guys, and 2-4 of them are coming to a school. I want to know this simple question. What is in place to stop deter or delay a gunman at a school once he arrives. Nobody wants to ask that simple question, How do you stop an active gunman? Most 6 year olds seem to know this answer. I think most of you know this answer as well, but for reasons of politics and preserving your points, you refuse to answer the question, choosing rather to deflect with satire, name calling or irrelevancies.

    I'm enraged, i'm as pissed as any of you, probably more so, because of my job. Mental illness seems to be the topic of all the talking points right now. The NRA has been trying for some time to deny those people with known mental issues, from being allowed to buy guns, such as for example, a report of domestic violence, keeps a person from legally buying a gun. But the Libs keep blocking that. they and the Doctors dont want to be reporting these people and putting them in the system, protecting their privacy is more important. But regardless of that, the question still stands:

    How do you stop a gunman that is already there?
     
    Bill Aubrey likes this.
  3. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    E WA
    Have to disagree . And interesting that Mexico is left out of the data. No decay but over 50, 000 murdered, dissolved in barrels of acid, tortured, dismembered the past few years and little condemnation by leaders. Women gang raped and killed along the border. Those that speak out are immediately killed. Total decay and corruption in the Mexican military and Police and Govt leaders. I worked down there and saw first hand the moral decay. Life had no value south of the border.

    You bring up pedophilia in the Catholic church qnd BSA however fail to mention that homosexual not heterosexual Priests and Scout masters were molesting teenage boys not girls.Hollywood of course will put a different spin on this and blame the organizations and not the individuals and their sexual orientation.

    Yhttp://articles.chicagotribune.com/2011-06-06/news/ct-edit-mob-20110606_1_flash-mob-rash-of-similar-crimes-chicago-

    Yutes have been using social media More and to help in their crimes and attacks in the US

    http://www.escapetyranny.com/2011/0...mcdonalds-nearly-kills-girl-shes-bleeding-yo/

    Everyone wants instant celebrity status.

    How many teenage suicides now due to cyber bullying?

    How much easier is it for pedophiles to seek out victims now than pre Internet?

    Facebook is being cited more and more in court cases as cause for divorces

    Every family seen in public now is staring down at smart phones and not even communicating with each other



    Hardly see this as a positive for society.


     
  4. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,148
    Media:
    54
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Location:
    Not sure
    As someone here I respect very much posted on another forum, one has as much chance of having a rational conversation about gun control with most pro-gun Americans as they do convincing a jihadist Muslim to embrace cartoons depicting the prophet.

    Let's not lose sight of the fact that these 'rational' pro-gun advocates purchased record amounts of ammunition from stores like Cabelas in the weeks before and after our recent presidential election, convinced that they 'needed' it to defend themselves and their families against the chaos that was sure to result if American re-elected a black president.

    But I could be wrong.

    K
     
    dfl likes this.
  5. Kent Lufkin

    Kent Lufkin Remember when you could remember everything?

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2004
    Messages:
    7,148
    Media:
    54
    Likes Received:
    1,226
    Location:
    Not sure
    Well case closed then, eh? 5% of all deaths is surely an acceptable price to pay for the dubious 'right' to maintain one's own personal arsenal.

    K
     
  6. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2005
    Messages:
    2,564
    Media:
    19
    Likes Received:
    859
    Location:
    Seattle, WA
    There have been many points, good and bad (IMHO), in the hours I've been offline. I'll only comment on a couple.

    Gearhead, your point is a valid one that it is only a very small number of gun owners who commit mass murders, and it is true that these events are what stimulate conversations such as this, but that is true only because we are inured to the day to day gun violence that exists in our society. It is the tens of thousands of gun-related deaths EVERY YEAR that are the much greater concern.

    To the many voices of reason who call for greater help for the mentally ill, Gearhead, you politicize the issue by saying that "the libs keep blocking" gun ownership 'rights' for those with mental illness. Please bear in mind that those people still have rights as citizens in our society and those are the same rights that the NRA so vocally endorse. Mental illness is not a simple one size fits all medical condition. You can't do a DNA test and say, "Yup, see that band on the gel, that's mental illness." So, don't be so quick to throw out the rights of millions of your fellow citizens for something that not only YOU don't understand, but that science and the medical community don't fully understand.

    Lugan has been one of the voices of reason in this thread, and his point that the "genie is out of the bottle" certainly is a line of reasoning that is difficult to dispute. But I'll take a shot, nonetheless.

    75 years ago, we could have said the same thing about many communicable diseases: "They are so widespread that many people alive today are going to die whether we do anything or not." But we still went ahead with developing vaccines and implementing them in routine medical care and, whaddya know? Small pox is gone from the world; polio is virtually extinct in the USA; and many others have diminished to the point that it is newsworthy once again when someone comes down with Rubella.

    Yes, if we implement serious, effective gun restrictions today, along with a buy-back policy like WadinBoot mentioned, we are unlikely to see significantly reduced gun mortality next year, but we will the year after that and the year after that. As has been pointed out before, many of the guns used in crimes were not purchased by the perpetrator, but were stolen from legal owners. As guns are bought back and confiscated in the routine of law enforcement, we WILL gradually become a safer society. Maybe by the time your children are grown, they won't have to live in a society where nearly 50,000 people die every year by murder or suicide committed by guns.

    Lugan, I'm sure you know this, and I don't expect your decision whether to purchase a handgun to change, but children who live in homes with handguns present are much more likely to be killed or injured by handguns than those who live in homes without handguns. We've seen too many examples of that here in Washington in the past year, including in homes of law enforcement officers, who should know best how to safely handle and store firearms. For your kids' sake, be redundant in your safety measures.

    As for having one for security while you are afield? There's no need to rationalize owning a handgun. They are beautiful examples of engineering, fun to shoot, and satisfy some deep emotional want in many people. So, as long as they are legal, go for it; but safety while out hiking or fishing? Nah...

    Dick
     
    dfl likes this.
  7. wadin' boot

    wadin' boot Donny, you're out of your element...

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2006
    Messages:
    2,147
    Likes Received:
    1,761
    Location:
    Wallingford, WA
    Home Page:
    Gearhead- I bet you already have your own answer.

    You have the kids and teachers practice lockdowns, you have doors that lock, you close the blinds and turn out the light, you have teachers that are armed, you have panic buttons. You have a rapid police response. You shoot the gunman.

    How would you stop a guy with body armor in a grade school?

    In the past two years my wife's grade school has had 5 real lockdowns, they practice either a fire, earthquake or lockdown drill each month. Guess where her school is? The University District, Seattle, a couple of blocks from the Cafe Racer shooting. I can't help but find those facts depressing, but that is the new reality, even in a bastion of liberals.


    People are talking about mental illness because as far as I can tell that's where the problem starts....

    We should all have more than one question...
     
    speyfisher and Evan Burck like this.
  8. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    E WA
    Nothing to do with the fact that crazy and racist (your implication) Or as wading boot put it "paranoid" gun owners are aware that The half black choom gang Pres Obama is on record as an IL Senator saying he wanted to ban all firearms like in Chicago, NYC qnd DC


    The dubious right of free speech is next

    "If they bring a knife I'll bring a gun"
    Barack Hussein Obama- Nobel Peace prize recipient




     
  9. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
    I can take quotes out of context too

    "We're a nation that believes in the Second Amendment, and I believe in the Second Amendment. We've got a long tradition of hunting and sportsmen and people who want to make sure they can protect themselves. My belief is that we have to enforce the laws we've already got, make sure that we're keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, those who are mentally ill. We've done a much better job in terms of background checks, but we've got more to do when it comes to enforcement."

    - Barrack Obama
     
    jwg, Bill Aubrey and speyfisher like this.
  10. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2009
    Messages:
    2,209
    Likes Received:
    242
    Location:
    out of state now
    Home Page:
    That is what is important for right now. And guards against some other crack pot, nut job, asshole, crazy who plans for notoriety from a copycat attack.
     
  11. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    E WA
    Politicians would never lie or pander to forward an agenda especially our Mr Choom gang/drone Pres

    I distinctly remember this famous politician looking into the camera and wagging his finger for emphasis after cheating on our current Sec of State

    "I did not have sexual relations with that woman"





     
  12. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
    As long as you believe whatever suits your bias.
     
  13. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
    slider292 likes this.
  14. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2003
    Messages:
    4,126
    Media:
    203
    Likes Received:
    594
    Location:
    Near the Fjord
    Stupid statement of the year!
     
  15. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    E WA
    Your lack of firearms and firearms laws is mind boggling.

    Children's bodies still warm and all you are concerned with is pushing your anti gun agenda just like our pos politicians

    Give it at least a few days


     
  16. Mike T

    Mike T Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2006
    Messages:
    867
    Likes Received:
    61
    Location:
    Gig Harbor, WA
    It bears pointing out that this shooter did not possess his own "personal arsenal", he stole it. It should also be a point of discussion that that there is much settled law, on the federal level, re the scope of the 2nd Amendment. I'm uncertain why this particular amendment is more dubious than the others, but here are two links to recent & notable cases.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._Chicago
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

    Kent also posted, "Let's not lose sight of the fact that these 'rational' pro-gun advocates purchased record amounts of ammunition from stores like Cabelas in the weeks before and after our recent presidential election, convinced that they 'needed' it to defend themselves and their families against the chaos that was sure to result if American re-elected a black president.

    I'm sure there were some bitter clingers buying this ammunition. However for a lot of mentally balanced sport shooters federal policies relating to ammunition were at the heart of this buying. Following the Korean War the US military left a lot of M-1 Garands and 30-06 ball ammo in Korea in case the hostilities reignited. As these arms became obsolete they were sent back to the US and the rifles & ammo were sold through the Office of Civilian Marksmanship, http://www.odcmp.com/. This ammo was relied on by sport shooters for years, however the Obama administration has stopped that re-importation thus driving costs up. The govt had also previously allowed the sale of spent casings from military use. These were purchased by ammunition manufacturers and private parties who loaded their own ammo. This too was ordered stopped by the Obama administration, thus driving up costs. Interestingly enough this brass isn't allowed to be recycled for fears it will fall into shooter's hands, it all goes to landfills by federal order. This coupled with emerging industrial nations (China for instance) desire for metals has caused prices to soar.

    There have always been runs on guns and ammunition when a democratic administration or congress is elected. I remember this when Clinton was elected so I highly doubt the president's race had anything to do with it. I hope that you will note that this gun nuts portion of this discussion was rational and fact based.
     
  17. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2001
    Messages:
    6,920
    Media:
    8
    Albums:
    1
    Likes Received:
    1,953
    Location:
    Sedro Woolley, WA, USA.
    You have managed to take this thread into your own personal politcal garbage pile so I doubt I can take it down any further. Everyone knows a blow job is not having sexual relations. It is getting a blow job. Jeebus h. christ get it together man.
     
    Jim Wallace and triploidjunkie like this.
  18. ribka

    ribka Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2005
    Messages:
    1,470
    Likes Received:
    188
    Location:
    E WA
    I believe politics was first introduced in this thread



     
  19. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
  20. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2007
    Messages:
    6,569
    Media:
    61
    Likes Received:
    1,742
    Location:
    Duvall, wa
    Home Page:
    A political post not based on bias or personal feelings, but on facts and history of policy. I keep my own political beliefs out of such discussions, and stick to things that can be backed up with facts and evidence. Nobody's political leanings are going to change from an online argument. Given I don't subscribe to one of the two major political belief systems, I take an outsider's look in to these matters.
     
    Bill Aubrey likes this.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page