(NFR) WMD's and a little perspective

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Luv2flyfish, May 21, 2004.

  1. XstreamAngler

    XstreamAngler ...has several mistresses.

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    My WMD is a rubber leg stimi on the Big Hole when hoppers are everywhere. You heads NEED to get out more, put down the paper, the t.v remote, your latest edition of "Soldier of Fortune" and your Tom Clancy books! Pick up your flyrod, your buddy and a fat sack and get to it!

    SAK
    "If you can't duct it, fuckt it".
    Xstream
     
  2. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    Amen SAK!

    I find it genuinely interesting though to be able to have conversations with so many people with differing opinions. Everyone has their points to make and sometimes one is able to reconsider one's position on various topics.

    Steve Buckner
    www.northwestflyfisherman.com
     
  3. Scott

    Scott New Member

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    Dems quotes regarding Iraq...

    Since we seem to be going down this path of Bush bashing... Let's bring to light what the dems and other Bush bashers have said recently.

    "Saddam's goal ... is to achieve the lifting of U.N. sanctions while retaining and enhancing Iraq's weapons of mass destruction programs. We cannot, we must not and we will not let him succeed." -- Madeline Albright, 1998

    "Iraq made commitments after the Gulf War to completely dismantle all weapons of mass destruction, and unfortunately, Iraq has not lived up to its agreement." -- Barbara Boxer, November 8, 2002

    "There's no question that Saddam Hussein is a threat... Yes, he has chemical and biological weapons. He's had those for a long time. But the United States right now is on a very much different defensive posture than we were before September 11th of 2001... He is, as far as we know, actively pursuing nuclear capabilities, though he doesn't have nuclear warheads yet. If he were to acquire nuclear weapons, I think our friends in the region would face greatly increased risks as would we." -- Wesley Clark on September 26, 2002

    "What is at stake is how to answer the potential threat Iraq represents with the risk of proliferation of WMD. Baghdad's regime did use such weapons in the past. Today, a number of evidences may lead to think that, over the past four years, in the absence of international inspectors, this country has continued armament programs." -- Jacques Chirac, October 16, 2002

    "Iraq is not the only nation in the world to possess weapons of mass destruction, but it is the only nation with a leader who has used them against his own people." -- Tom Daschle in 1998

    And some of your liberal hero's:

    "We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction." -- Ted Kennedy, September 27, 2002

    "Iraq does pose a serious threat to the stability of the Persian Gulf and we should organize an international coalition to eliminate his access to weapons of mass destruction. Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to completely deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power." -- Al Gore, 2002

    "In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including Al Qaeda members, though there is apparently no evidence of his involvement in the terrible events of September 11, 2001. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons. Should he succeed in that endeavor, he could alter the political and security landscape of the Middle East, which as we know all too well affects American security." -- Hillary Clinton, October 10, 2002

    "The community of nations may see more and more of the very kind of threat Iraq poses now: a rogue state with weapons of mass destruction, ready to use them or provide them to terrorists. If we fail to respond today, Saddam and all those who would follow in his footsteps will be emboldened tomorrow." -- Bill Clinton in 1998

    "(W)e need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime. We all know the litany of his offenses. He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation. ...And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction. That is why the world, through the United Nations Security Council, has spoken with one voice, demanding that Iraq disclose its weapons programs and disarm. So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real, but it is not new. It has been with us since the end of the Persian Gulf War." -- John Kerry, Jan 23, 2003

    So why do I bring this up? Why do I feel like I need to get brought into this?

    Because there seems to be an awful lot of people with blinders on out there... Maybe it is just the liberal NW, but jesus people, use your friggin brain. It's there for a reason. Are you really going to vote for someone who only stands to tell each audiance what they want to hear in their persuit to the white house? I'm tired of hearing "Bush isn't doing this... Bush isn't doing that..." What is the solution from the left? What are your ideas? I never hear any. -- And yes I read the paper, and yes i listed to the news. Granted, Bush is NOT a good speaker. Bush probably is not the best for the environment. But for Christ sakes, do you actually trust Kerry to protect us and make our nation more secure? Do you ACTUALLY think that by handing Iraq over to the UN, these terrorist thugs are going to say let's leave the US alone now? They have been trying to kill you and me for years... They will not stop. They are twisted and deranged. Why are we fighting? Because we have had WAR declared on US. Open your eyes people...
     
  4. Cactus

    Cactus Dana Miller

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    >You are correct that he does not mention an imminent
    >threat during his state of the Union address, these
    >quotes were made in addition to that speech, most of
    >them to get congress to turn over the power of
    >declaring war on Iraq.

    So in other words, President Bush NEVER stated that Iraq was an imminant threat. That is the charge that has been repeated over and over by his opponents, and it is just not true! If you repeat a lie often enough, people may just believe it but it's still not true.

    >"The United Nations concluded in 1999 that Saddam
    >Hussein had biological weapons sufficient to produce
    >over 25,000 liters of anthrax -- enough doses to kill
    >several million people. He hasn't accounted for that
    >material. He's given no evidence that he has destroyed
    >it.

    So President Bush is to be condemned for believing the UN regarding WMD? Yet the left now turns around and condemns him for NOT doing it the UN's way? You can't have it both ways!

    It seems to me that ones you should be condemning is the UN. They lead the entire world to believe that Saddam has WMD, in direct violation of numerous UN sanctions, capable of causing the death of millions. Yet when the UN had the oportunity to stand firm with the US and maybe, just maybe, cause Saddam to relent, they backed down.

    Of course now we know why they did. It's because they were in Saddam's back pocket. The UN, along with France, were taking billions in kick backs from Saddam. The UN is nothing but a bunch of morally bankrupt cowards. Just look at the tragedys in Ruwanda, Bosnia, Kosovo, Sudan, etc.! Look at the millions of his own people that Saddam killed! Where was the UN?

    The UN condemns Israel for killing a relatively small number of terrorist bent on the elimination of Israel, while turning a blind eye to the slaughter of millions of innocents elsewhere in the world. Disgusting!

    American soldiers are dying in Iraq today because the UN was too corrupt to do it's job! It wanted to keep the billions of dollars in blood money flowing from Saddam.

    The UN has an abhorant record of solving world conflicts; they haven't solved one! It has taken US leadership and blood. Under President's Bush and Clinton: the Kosovars are no longer being murdered by Milosovic; there is relative peace in Northern Ireland; the woman of Afghanistan can now attend school; the Libyans have renounced WMD; and hopefully, soon the Iraqis will be able to elect there own leader.

    The question shouldn't be why "the world" hates the US, it should be why in the hell they like the UN!

    >13 months later, how much have we found?

    To quote William Safire; "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence."

    Just two weeks ago, the left was calling President Bush a lier because there were NO WMD's in Iraq. That is no longer the case but I doubt the President will be holding his breath in expectation of an apology.

    No the left just raises the bar. Now the charge is that he's lying because we haven't found enough. Why do I get the impression that if we found 90% of the WMD's that the UN said were in Iraq, the left would still call him a lier because 'there weren't as many as he said'? :rolleyes
     
  5. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    Dems quotes regarding Iraq...

    Good points Scott and thanks for posting the quotes from the liberal left. I'm guilty of being on the left (like that was a surprise) and it's healthy for me to see things like you've posted.

    By their nature, politics and religion are topics that people feel passionate about. It's better to be passionate than indifferent. Like many, I wish we had other options besides Kerry or Bush. It always seems like choosing the lesser of two evils.

    Steve Buckner
    www.northwestflyfisherman.com
     
  6. Scott

    Scott New Member

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    Dems quotes regarding Iraq...

    Skinny.... You forgot beer.

    One should always be passionate about beer. Not all beer, but beer non the less. :thumb
     
  7. Steve Buckner

    Steve Buckner Mother Nature's Son

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    You make good points as well Cactus. I maintain my argument that Bush and or his spokemsan made declarations of Iraq being an "imminent threat" however. Bush himself may not have used that exact term, but used synonyms.


    Steve Buckner
    www.northwestflyfisherman.com
     
  8. Stephen Rice

    Stephen Rice Senior Member

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    WMD's and a little perspective

    come on ! cant anybody NFR this ... Hello ! this is a fly fishing site where are all of the fishing reports????
    Steve
     
  9. Gabriel Burgi

    Gabriel Burgi doesn't live in WA anymore :(

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    Attn: Bob and Luv2FlyFish, and all others....

    Now, if we can find a nice blend of Luv2FlyFish's initial post, and Bob Lawless' inital post, we might get something done. Cheers to both for points well made. Someone really important said this to me when I was entering the toughest military school in the country: "This too shall pass". Take that to heart. It will all get worked out. These things take time. We've got the best of the best out there, and history--as Bob pointed out--to guide us in our decisions(Thanks to Bob for doing what noone else wanted to do). This is not worth fighting amongst ourselves about. Just enjoy the fact that there are VOLUNTEERS out there doing the dirty work for us while we await summer steelhead season, or enjoy the last of the spring chinooks (out here in Pullman/Moscow). Trust me, when my time comes to step up to the plate, I'll be ready and willing. And I won't remember these arguments, or who made them. I will remember the people and things that I cherish that are worth fighting for.

    By the way, that PRK laser eye surgery sucks (get the LASIK it heals quicker). I'll be out of flyfishing for about 3 weeks, but it will all be worth it when I get selected to be a naval aviator. For now I gotta go. I'm on deck.

    - Gabe:professor
     
  10. Roper

    Roper Idiot Savant

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    Breifly, pre-emptive strikes are aggression, period.

    It's wrong, period.

    Sunni and Shitheads, oops I mean Shiites have been at odds for centuries, we're not gonna change that, period.

    Read the Koran, this shit is not in there...period.

    PYA brother, PYA!

    Roper,

    Life goes on, enjoy it...
     
  11. Jeff_e_d

    Jeff_e_d Member

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    Its not for every citizen to know????---How about Colin Powell???? Do you think he is worthy to know??? He went before the world to state America's case for this war and now he has to backtrack because of this secretive approach that doesn't require one shred of proof. Ya, there's been talk down both sides of the Isle in Congress speculating whether Iraq has sufficient WMD or intended on generating sufficient WMD. But there has to be some accountability before you commit Americas military in a war such as this.

    Let's not forget, the real target is terrorists. We now have lost 700-800 soldiers over there and consumed billions over what???? Now that we can't prove that WMD exists, the reason for the war has changed to creating democrasy. If we leave, there will be a holy civil war that will devistate the country and leave it in far greater caos and instibility than before we started. So we're just supposed to go along with this because Dick Cheney thinks its a good idea?????
     

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