Noob question (sink tip recs)

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by underachiever, Oct 16, 2012.

  1. underachiever !

    Posts: 634
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +432 / 0
    What kind of tips should I be looking at for swinging? I recently picked up a 7wt Echo SR (10'10") and a speydicator line (I know it's not the ideal line for swinging), I've read numerous reviews indicating it can handle tips in the 10-12 ft range so I understand that part. Can anyone recommend a good set of tips as a starting point? Should I be looking at poly leaders? What's the difference between a typical sinking tip and a poly leader?

    I'm sure I won't be able to cast to save my life when I start, but I've never let that never stop me before.
  2. Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

    Posts: 1,508
    Yakima, WA
    Ratings: +307 / 0
    if you've never cast a spey rod before, I recommend NOT learning on a switch rod. I also don't recommend learning on a speydicator. That line, while it CAN handle tips, IMHO casts like shit with tips..so does the Switch line. If you want to throw tips, get another line for that rod. Get a compact skagit or a compact scandi and knock yourself out with tips.

    General rule (notice how I say general rule):
    Scandi lines -> poly leaders
    skagit lines -> sink tips

    The other issue is what are you fishing for? What river water are you fishing? When are you fishing for them?
    fredaevans likes this.
  3. underachiever !

    Posts: 634
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +432 / 0
    I'm definitely making a lot of concessions with my current setup. It's budget related and I'd like to get to a place where I have specialized stuff to better do specific things, but I was able to put this setup together for about $275.

    It's going to be used for steelhead and I mostly fish the north coast rivers of Oregon winters and summers. I sometimes fish the Klickitat/Sandy/Clackamas too but a fraction of my time.
  4. Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

    Posts: 1,508
    Yakima, WA
    Ratings: +307 / 0
    Unless you plan on nymphing with that rod/line as well as swinging, I'd say ditch it and get a dedicated swinging line. I know that doesn't answer your questions or even really give you much help, but that's what I'd personally do.

    If you want to nymph with it, then you're set! Just add leader/tippet, bobber, and flies and you're good to go.

    Summer fish: I guess get a poly leader as it's easier to cast and sinks fast and just modify your casting stroke. It won't be pretty, but it will work. Once again though, you're going to learn bad habits learning to cast this setup without already knowing the basics.

    Winter fish: you're kind of screwed here. I don't foresee you dredging for winter fish with this setup comfortably with your level of experience in casting.

    Not trying to be a dick, just trying to give you some guidance. I mean, anything is "doable" if you MUST work with it, but it won't necessarily be perfect, comfortable, or even fun.
  5. Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

    Posts: 1,508
    Yakima, WA
    Ratings: +307 / 0
    For the record:
    I've got a 6 wt CPX switch as well. I carry two reels with me. One with a switch line for bobber fishing. One with a 390 gr. compact skagit for swinging. I can throw tips with it a well. Reason I did this, was because I tried swinging with the switch line and HATED it. I already had 2 years of experience in casting and still didn't like it. I, like you wanted the best of both worlds and found out the switch rod/line combo either nymphs well or swings well, but doesn't do both excellent.
  6. underachiever !

    Posts: 634
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +432 / 0
    No prob, I appreciate the input. I'll also nymph with the rod/line for sure, I suppose that's how I ended up with what I have. The first improvement I'll add to my setup is definitely an additional spool and line.
  7. Luke77 I hope she likes whitefish

    Posts: 1,508
    Yakima, WA
    Ratings: +307 / 0
    In short, get a light poly leader and don't plan on throwing big articulated chunks of hair/feathers. Smaller un-weighted flies should be okay.
  8. Rob Allen Active Member

    Posts: 904
    Vancouver WA
    Ratings: +367 / 0
    don't know about that line but for rivers in western Washington probably the most versatile tip you could have would be 12 feet of t-11.....
  9. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    UA, if you're not already a member of the SpeyPages web forum (excellent) Google, sign on/sign in. Check the classifieds and you'll find a lot of lines for sale at reasonable prices.
    fae
    yuhina likes this.
  10. yuhina Tropical member

    Posts: 2,320
    Boston-Idaho
    Ratings: +43 / 0
    fred,

    is that you in the photo?! great shot!! :)

    I agree what suggested above...
    Echo SR is a very powerful rod, if you need to fish heavy tip constantly, buy some skagit bellies and you will be happy with the set up, handle a lot of heavy tips and flies...
  11. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    That be all 70 years of me and my Fishing Buddy (now passed) Husky on his last 'trip.' He and Sandy were (Sandy still is) "fixtures" on the beaches of the upper Rogue River. Someone, anyone, walks out of the river and sat down for a rest ... Husky would get up and walk over and flop down next to him. A chin chuck coming in most cases. Several of the 'regulars' actually kept dog biskets in their vests for the two.

    Picture was taken on his last trip on the river as he was so fragile (hips/legs) that getting into/out of the Jeep took two people to keep him safe.

    I think, that trip, he knew it was 'over.' Not just a 'what,' but a 'when.'

    Sorry, I've got to take a walk. Can't express how much/why/when/flaked out under my desk/etc.

    God gave me a true gift (Sandy too); and took minutes to know 'what's up here.'

    Frederick A. Evans
  12. danimal Inglorious Twohander

    Posts: 71
    michiana,SW lk mich
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    Cant comment about the rod-for I havent even wiggled one. But the speydicator line that I have had SEVERAL people tell me it casts like crap--Actually I was surprised by what I could achieve distance wise with it..

    Lil clunky in my books, but damn--what ya want out of a bobber line with rio versitips on it..
    I myself am not fond of AF's poly leaders. Thats why the versi's. But that line actually went pertty good on my meiser switch.

    Not as good as a winter authority55 on my 15ft mks--of course that comparison is like apples to oranges.

    With a switch rod remember to keep a tight compact stroke--tis nothing like throwing a skag or midbelly on a 14ft rod as an example..

    Watch sum vids and sumone actually cast a switch(flicky flick) as a british bud of mine calls switches.

    Best advise I can give you for spey casting ANY LINE on a switch is to keep yer elbows tight to yer body.

    Works for me anyway when I put down the longer rods I usually throw and grab the switch for tight quarter narrow water casting................
    fredaevans likes this.
  13. underachiever !

    Posts: 634
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +432 / 0
    I really appreciate everyone's input/insight. I'll get out this weekend and see exactly how terrible I am.
  14. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Soooo yes!

    "With a switch rod remember to keep a tight compact stroke--tis nothing like throwing a skag or midbelly on a 14ft rod as an example..

    Watch sum vids and sumone actually cast a switch(flicky flick) as a british bud of mine calls switches.

    Best advise I can give you for spey casting ANY LINE on a switch is to keep yer elbows tight to yer body.

    Works for me anyway when I put down the longer rods I usually throw and grab the switch for tight quarter narrow water casting................"
  15. underachiever !

    Posts: 634
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +432 / 0
    I went out yesterday and gave it a go for 20-30 minutes. Struggled a lot but I was able to make a fair amount of good casts. I see how important line placement prior to casting is.

    Keeping the motion compact and my elbows in tight really helped, so thanks for that bit of advice.
  16. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    The one thing I have to 'drill into Newbies' is SLOW DOWN, DON'T FORCE THE ROD/CAST. Light fingers on the cork and let that long lever do its thing.
    :>)
    danimal likes this.
  17. danimal Inglorious Twohander

    Posts: 71
    michiana,SW lk mich
    Ratings: +10 / 0
    VERY LITE GRIP INDEED!!! And power the forward stroke with yer bottom hand..And not apply to much power at the beginning of the forward stroke..(slowly accelerate to a sudden stop)--MIGHT TAKE YOU AWHILE TO GET THE HANG OF THAT..
    Anchor placement is critical with any speyrod-any cast..If the anchor tis not where you want it or where you think it should be--then forgo the cast..Roll or switch cast the line back down river and start again.

    Over the years I have drilled 3 hooks into me carcass--twice bad anchor placement was the cause.
  18. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Danimal brings up a very good point, anchor placement is 'everything.' Until you really get 'good' at spey casting your aiming point for the forward stroke should be right over the connection of the end of your fly line/beginning of the leader. With that in mind, if you blow a cast set up there is THE PERRY POKE!!

    Ta-Da! Greatest recovery cast going. Cast was originally used (still is) for casting heavy tips. But if you blow one IMMEDIATELY PULL BACK and go into the 'Poke.' You'll 'recover' 9 our of 10 busted casts.

    Hit the film and go 'wide screen' on your computer for a better view.

  19. fredaevans Active Member

    Posts: 3,115
    White City, Oregon, USA.
    Ratings: +118 / 0
    Here's a better view/explanation of "The Poke."


    I 'agree to disagree' with one aspect of this film. IF your intent is to execute the Poke from the get-go, good enough. IF you're doing one as a recovery cast the line set up goes line over the top of line as shown in the first vid-clip.
  20. underachiever !

    Posts: 634
    suburban hell
    Ratings: +432 / 0
    I wanted to say thanks a lot to Danimal and Fred. I went back out today and my casting was much improved. Light grip, proper anchor placement, don't rush and using my bottom hand for the forward stroke. Once all those things clicked it was effortless. Thanks again, between the two of you and a few youtube videos, I'm not overwhelmed with it anymore.