Not a good WDFW story

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Reelucky, Aug 1, 2009.

  1. Gary Strassburg

    Gary Strassburg 'cuz chicks dig scars

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Oh yeah... I forgot to mention... there used to be a WDFW officer that patrolled Whidbey that would cite your for not having a blue or black ball point pen on your person. Even if it was in your tackle box, on the tailgate, in a coat pocket in the truck... didn't matter. I happened to just have a pen in my wader pocket the day I was finally checked by him. The guy 20 yards down the beach from me wasn't so lucky...

    He said not having the appropriate writing utensil on your person was basically "poaching" because you were fishing with the intent to not mark your catch on your CRC. I told him, as long as I marked my catch before I fished again, I'm legal... He said nope, you have to mark it immediately before handling the fish in anyway other than landing it. It's all how the officer interprets it... not the fisherman.

    Gary
     
  2. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2008
    Messages:
    734
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Here
    True that interpreting it differently than an officer might get your a ticket, but an officer is not an interpreter of the law, he/she is law enforcment. The interpreters are judges and lawyers from my understanding. Just because he/she is a cop doesn't mean they are more right then you.
     
  3. cabezon

    cabezon Sculpin Enterprises

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2004
    Messages:
    1,791
    Media:
    224
    Likes Received:
    299
    Location:
    Olympia, WA
    Gary,

    That officer is just wrong. If you are doing catch and release, you won't have any need to write in your catch card and therefore, you should not be cited for the lack of any writing utensil. The officer cannot simply assume that you will catch something, retain it, and not record it. One wonders if some officers figure that you will not fight an improper citation because of the inconvenience.

    Steve
     
  4. Gary Strassburg

    Gary Strassburg 'cuz chicks dig scars

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2007
    Messages:
    83
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Oak Harbor, WA
    Trent... I agree with you there mang. :)

    Steve... Believe it or not. I asked that very question. The man also said that C&R doesn't matter, and that you are supposed to fill in every fish caught that is recordable on a CRC... I agree with you that it doesn't make any sense. But his reasoning is that the state also gets a count of where the fish are being caught and not just retained. I pulled out my CRC, and told him that it says "when a fish is retained", which to me means "kept". He said no... retained is any landed fish. :beathead:

    This was about 15 years ago or more. I don't even know if the officer is even employed around here anymore. He prolly retired by now. I have not seen him in years. Just think of how many tickets were issued to people that didn't deserve them. Like the OP of this thread.

    BTW... hope I didn't derail the thread... :eek:

    Gary
     
  5. Reelucky

    Reelucky New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Thank you all for your advice.

    I was out again today No WDFW to be seen even though there were about 8 crab pots out illegaly. I think it was the opening day for 8-2 and these guys were filling a quota.

    I have run into WDFW in many hunting and fishing circumstances and even though most officers have the charm of a whitefish they are usually short to the point and move on.

    My friends are just going to pay the ticket as it is more costly to take the time off of work than to pay the fine.

    I am more bothered by the idea of being branded a "cheater" than they are. I feel if I don't fight it then it will bite me in the ass later and these two officers will feel they can bully anyone.

    I truly feel there is a difference between somebody trying to break the rules and one who's barb is too lumpy or the pen is red or their writing is sloppy.

    Only 1 pink today BTW. They seem a it more closed mouth than anticipated.
     
  6. Eric-WD

    Eric-WD Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Westport WA
    To further my above post make sure to take at least one barbed hook of the type and size you were using to show the difference to the judge, and I would take a pair of pliers to let them try to debarb better.



    Eric
     
  7. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2006
    Messages:
    2,023
    Media:
    59
    Likes Received:
    362
    Location:
    Mill Creek, WA
    Really sorry to hear, and it's just another sad example of what's going on all over our great state. Innocent until proven guilty...at least that used to be the law around here...unless Chrissy changed that as well...go to court and test it out but don't hold your breath. If the WaSPs are turning us upside down for a shake why wouldn't WDFW? Oh well, it's what the majority of our voters wanted when they cast their well-informed votes...right? *yawn*
     
  8. Kim Hampton

    Kim Hampton Not Politically Correct

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2006
    Messages:
    276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Tacoma, Wa
    Security probably won't let you take the stuff into the court room.:mad:
     
  9. Eric-WD

    Eric-WD Member

    Joined:
    May 28, 2009
    Messages:
    72
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Westport WA
    Its a possibility, call ahead first and then figure out a way for them to go in legally.


    People who won't take time off to fight bad tickets tick me off, They are the reason that these attitude cops (the few) get away with it. They know most people won't show up in court to fight a $80 ticket.

    I will never plead guilty to something I didn't do.

    Back in the dark ages guys used to plead guilty to a domestic related ticket whether they did it or not, didn't want to fight the ticket, take a day off work for court etc. Instead they plead guilty by paying the fine and went on their way.

    Then the law changed I was working in a Prison at the time, saw some good people loose their jobs because years before they plead guilty to something that was easier to pay the fine. When they could no longer have firearms they couldn't work in the prison.

    What your friends are doing by paying the ticket is pleading guilty, if the law changes 10 years from now and says anyone with a wildlife related crime is no longer allowed to hunt or fish, they will be wishing they hadn't just paid the fine.

    Eric
     
  10. Reelucky

    Reelucky New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    That's my fear , Eric. But I do understand their side as the day off costs them more than the ticket.

    No politics please. I am already upset enough. :)
     
  11. CovingtonFly

    CovingtonFly B.O.H.I.C.A. bend over here it comes again

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    586
    Media:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Covington, Wa
    What a bunch of Bull$hit!!

    What does it list as the infraction on the ticket? I believe there should be a number citing a specific infraction. Then we can figure out excatly what you were cited for.
     
  12. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    2,354
    Media:
    45
    Likes Received:
    627
    Location:
    Kalama, WA
    Since we all pinch our barbs in regulated waters, this is of interest to a pretty good portion of this board. Who do we contact to find out the official ruling? And if enough of us do contact them, maybe they'll get the point...
     
  13. Scott Keith

    Scott Keith Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2006
    Messages:
    602
    Media:
    3
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Arlington, WA
    I looked on my Catch record card for this year and it no longer says "record any fish retained" It now says "Do not record released fish"... maybe enough people complained and that's why it has changed.

    Since we are all so passionate about this issue... who wants to pitch in and cover his missed wages so that he can challenge it in court? Anyone?

    While I would hope that the infraction does get challenged I can understand the OP's reasonings for going to work and getting a paycheck instead.

    As far as barbless hooks go... if I am fishing on a river with a barbless hook but I have flies with me (That I'm not fishing with...) that aren't barbless is there any danger there?
     
  14. bouface

    bouface Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2005
    Messages:
    123
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    Portland, OR
    Also, even if your friends are going to pay their fines, tell them to call the number on the ticket and ask for a reduction. Reductions to 2/3 of the fine are granted nearly all the time, and you don't have to come to court to do it.
     
  15. Walt K

    Walt K Searcher

    Joined:
    Dec 5, 2005
    Messages:
    89
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Poulsbo, WA
    Under the definition of "Hook" in the regs, "barbless" means "a hook from which all barbs have been deleted when manufactured, filed off, or pinched down." To me, "pinched down" implies that there's still a bump from the former barb, so I guess the question for the fishcop/judge is whether the bump has an edge that can still snag anything.

    Edit: just saw that the definition had been posted above. Sorry for the duplication. I also checked the Washington State Register, and it uses the same definition as the reg book:

    WAC 232-12-001 Definition of terms. Definitions used in rules of the commission are defined in RCW 77.08.010. In addition, unless otherwise provided:

    ...

    (5) "Hook" means one single, double, or treble hook. A "single hook" means a hook having a single point; a "double hook" means a hook having two points on a common shank; and a "treble hook" means a hook having three points on a common shank. "Barbless hook" means a hook on which all barbs have been deleted when manufactured, filed off, or pinched down.
     
  16. Reelucky

    Reelucky New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    I'm looking at the ticket and it says "Did unlawfully fish in Marine area with barbed hooks"

    Hooks? It was a single hook with a nub.I never noticed the "hooks" part.

    RCW 77.15.1602 is the violation code
     
  17. ak_powder_monkey

    ak_powder_monkey Proud to Be Alaskan

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2004
    Messages:
    3,223
    Media:
    39
    Likes Received:
    112
    Location:
    Eagle River, Alaska
    plead not guilty
     
  18. CovingtonFly

    CovingtonFly B.O.H.I.C.A. bend over here it comes again

    Joined:
    Apr 6, 2006
    Messages:
    586
    Media:
    7
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Covington, Wa
    Alright, I checked the RCW (revised code of Washington) the actual law you are being accused of violating 77.15.1602
    It breaks down like this
    title 77 -fish and wildlife
    chapter 77.15 -fish and wildlife enforcement code
    next is 77.15.160- infractions, record catch, barbed hooks, other rule violation
    so 77.15.1602 is defined as "fishes for personal using barbed hooks in violation of any rule
    You can check it all out here http://apps.leg.wa.gov/RCW/default.aspx?cite=77.15.160

    So that tells you what you are being cited for which is consistent with what the officer said and wrote. I would say contest the ticket and take your lures in and show the judge that there pinched and you were following the law.
     
  19. Jerry Knudson

    Jerry Knudson New Member

    Joined:
    Mar 20, 2009
    Messages:
    48
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Lakewood, Wa or AZ
    Well I got a reply from WDFW and it is copied below..... They didn't really clear anything up, but I think I will keep a copy with my liscense just to show if need be....


    Thank you for your e-mail correspondence to the Washington Department of Fish and Wildlife (WDFW) Fish Program.



    Your best source for information on licenses, daily limits, season, restrictions, etc. would be the 2009/2010 Fishing In Washington Sport Fishing Rules regulation pamphlet. This pamphlet is full of a lot of useful information, such as license fees for both resident and non-resident on page 18. This publication is formatted with the regulations for Westside Rivers first, followed by Westside Lakes, Eastside Rivers, Eastside Lakes, Marine Area Rules and finally Shellfish/Seaweed Rules. There is also a list of the 6 Regional offices that are located throughout the state, with phone numbers included, on page 11.



    As per page 96, under Tackle/Gear Rules, the regulation pamphlet states: HOOK AND LINE ANGLING - Unless noted differently, only one line with up to 2 hooks is allowed. Barbless hooks are required for all species in Marine Areas 5-13, except forage fish jig gear. When fishing for SALMON in Marine Areas 1-13, only single-point hooks may be used.



    What you can do is either file the barbs down, or pinch them down. Both are perfectly legal methods for turning a barbed hook into a barbless hook. Whichever method you choose, test them by gently running your finger across the place where the barb use to be. If your finger slides smoothly, without catching or snagging, you will be good to go.



    If you do not have a copy of the new regulation pamphlet, you can respond with your surface mailing address and we would be happy to send one to you, or with your internet capability, you may view/download the WDFW online pamphlet at the following web address: http://wdfw.wa.gov/fish/regs/2009/2009sportregs.pdf.



    Please make sure you check for emergency rule changes before you harvest as follows:



    Fishing Rule Change Hotline at (360) 902-2500 Shellfish Rule Change Hotline at 1-866-880-5431 Or, try our new searchable emergency rule link off our website at: https://fortress.wa.gov/dfw/erules/efishrules/index.jsp



    Additionally, for shellfish, make sure to call the Dept. of Health Marine Toxins PSP Hotline at 1-800-562-5632.



    If you have further questions, please email again or call (360) 902-2700. Our Customer Service hours are 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., Monday through Friday.



    Sincerely,

    Fish Program
     
  20. Reelucky

    Reelucky New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2009
    Messages:
    50
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bothell, WA
    Ohhhhh Thank you!!! Gently rub your finger down the hook. That is even better than the poke your t-shirt with it!!!

    I am feeling more confident now.
     

Share This Page