Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Jonathan Tachell, Nov 3, 2012.
You're an idiot.
Yes. And I fish with a guy who volunteered to clip coho fins up at the Humptulips hatchery last year. there weren't enough volunteers. There were zillions of fins to clip. My friend's estimate of how many fish went out unclipped was about 40%.
After hearing about that, next year I'm going to bonk every legal unclipped Coho in the Chehalis system that I manage to catch! Don't worry, though. It won't be more than a couple, since the dang beasts have already sore-armed me into laying down my coho rod and trout fishing with a 4 wt!
This year, I still might go after some "wild" Coho in a local stream. Late run beasts. Even though wild spawned, their heritage is co-mingled with hatchery stock due to past actions by the State of WA. It will be legal to bop one there, and I'll employ "situation ethics" to the question. If I see a lot of fish around, I might harvest one, if its a buck. Otherwise, I'll probably let it go.
Back in the day when the state had money, many of the popular beaches had fish checkers that would walk the beach or hang around the parking lots.
I was really suprised how many of the unclipped fish had nose tags when the checker ran the wand over them. This was when clipping was a common practice. Perhaps these fish were the basis of some type of study? I'm not sure.
One other thing I noticed this fall was how many small (4-5 lb) unclipped silvers there were from mid Sept to Mid Oct. I'm not saying that all unclipped fish during that period should be large, but the number of small fish during that timeframe was unusual based on my past observations. Alot of them looked like the clipped cookie cutter resident fish we were catching earlier in the year.
SF, the fisheries biologist I mentioned above works with a controlled wild run of coho and they nose tag their fish for study. Not that all nose tagged fish would be wild, but some could be.
I also noticed the wave of smaller fish near the end of the run with a mix of clipped and not-clipped specimens. They certainly looked and fought more like the earlier wave of hatchery fish.
Is WDFW still releasing hatchery raised Coho smolts into streams with no hatchery or collection facility on them? In the very recent past, the kids in my local area high school have been helping to raise Coho fingerlings, and they have released those into a local stream, the Johns River, which has no hatchery or collection facility. Any of those returning hatchery fish that escape can try to spawn. As a result, there probably aren't any 100% pure native Coho left in that stream. The hatchery run isn't finished when Dec 1st rolls around, although the fishing closes for them.
After the close of Coho season not many years ago, I went up there trying for hatchery steelhead in the first few days of Dec. I caught a beautiful chrome hatchery Coho hen not too far above tidewater. I had to release her, per The Regs.
Oh! Ha, Ha! silly me. I forgot about the good ole boyz that stil go back in there at night and snag 'em all out of their snaggin holes.. sort of an unofficial, underground, and highly mobile "collection facility."
There is a book called Four Fish you should check out, I think you would get into it. Good post.
Ethically, how can you say that harvesting a wild salmon is worse that harvesting a hatchery one? The action of harvesting requires killing a fish either way.
When I was growing up, fly fisherman always seemed to be arraogant holier than thou types that fished "the right way". So many posts (especially in the steelhead forum) just reaffirm this stereotype for me. Lots of the posts here sound like they are written by fundamentalist religious fanatics.
Theres a pretty big difference between hatchery and wild. If you don't believe so there's seemingly infinite ammounts of information on the subject for you to read through
How many people feel morally obligated to release every wild salmon while fishing in Alaska? Keeping a wild fish up there is fine right? Must be a huge difference between the two fish.
Yes but the runs in AK aren't under the same pressure as puget sound (yet), and the south sound fish have to run the entire gauntlet before getting to their natal streams usually filled with snaggers, its amazing some even make it. If I have to point that out to you then my post is probably a lost cause; is that not common knowledge? Years ago when there was less pressure I'm sure the puget sound rivaled any other AK fishing destination. Hell why doesn't everyone just go to Alaska then, i'm sure it'll be another ten or fifteen years before they're in the same boat.And by the way there is alot of care being taken to keep hatchery populations separate from wild stocks so that the native strains aren't weakened genetically, That's right, let that one set in for a few before posting again. I even gave you a link to some info you could really use, but since I never liked doing other peoples homework I'm not going to bother posting any more for you. If you don't care, you don't care.
I'm not condemning the original poster for keeping one, I appreciated his report, but I do think that we all need to exercise caution.
Trust me, it's not that I don't care. I just feel like the fishery is hurting so I'd be more inclined to let them all go.
well the good news is that those gillnets aren't catching anything else.
I released two wild-spawned Coho (fingerlings? smolts? whaddaya call 'em when they are "rearing" in a lake?) while lake fishing in the past week. Some determined Cohos apparently made it up thru the lake into the feeder creek and spawned. One was 7" and tail-walked for 2/3 the length of my hull! Mighty mite, it was! The other was 8" and was kind of a dud. Both looked kind of like cutthroat without throat slash marks, but with smaller mouths, and deeply forked tails. Spotted green backs. On the 8"er, I could see what looked like very faint parr marks.
Seems to be an awful lot of opinions hiding behind psuedo-names on this thread. I discount any opinion when its hidden behind anonymity.
Seems like this post is a little out of place, if you want to express your fear of strangers start your own thread so no one can reply, besides, jim welch is pretty anonymous. are you jim welch the Massachusetts state senator or composer and sound designer jim welch, or maybe jim welch native american author? see my point
Sorry Pat, I don't see your point, I am the Jim Welch in Renton (check under my name), not Massachusetts. Discounting has nothing to do with fear, its about being accountable for your actions and opinions, if there were a fear factor here its resident in the people with psuedo-names. My post is very appropriate here, there were a bunch of people jumping on Jonathans case as well as those that are defending Jonathan that have decided to be somewhat anonymous, and it was a thread on this forum that challenged people to change their avatar names to their real ones, I have respect for that and I changed mine. I think an opinion is much more valid when it comes from someone that takes responsibility for it rather than being anonymous.
I was just commenting on the fact that jim welch is somewhat anonymous as well, a quick google of the name brings up quite a few by that same moniker. How do we even know that is your name. Why not make a thread listed under NFR to express your concerns about peoples anonymity. Just seems like you're trying to stir something up.
Even though I've been a forum member for a short while I'm already getting tired of people posting things non fishing related . But whatev it doesn't really matter anyway, I 'll let you get back to your soap opera.
Love the report, keep it up. Ignore all these numb skulls that are shooting your report down. They are self absorbed posers that have nothing better to do than troll reports. Hope that fish tasted good, I caught a native around the same time and made me a nice dinner that night.
To life, or not to lift, is that the question? Or,
To bonk, or not to bonk, that is the question? So many possibilities in this thread. But take heart, and worry not. Why not worry? Well, because, . . .
South Puget Sound has been managed as a hatchery coho wipe out fishery since the 1960s. What does that mean? From Seattle south, the state chose to focus on harvesting all surplus hatchery coho salmon, which is about 90% of them. As a result, any native wild south sound coho were also harvested at that high, close to 90% harvest rate. And because sport fishing for salmon is so inefficient, the vast preponderance of those coho were caught in gillnets and purse seines by commercial fishermen. Back in the 1960s, coho habitat was still intact enough that the healthy wild populations could tolerate harvest rates as high as 75%, meaning 3 out of every 4 wild coho was "surplus" and therefore, harvestable. However, at a 90% harvest rate, and declining habitat conditions in south Puget Sound streams, too few wild coho escaped harvest to spawn.
The result is that for all practical purposes the native wild south sound coho have been functionally extinct for decades. And that was by management choice no less. That doesn't mean that there aren't any wild coho left in south Puget Sound today, but it means that they are the result of hatchery fish either being stocked in streams as fry or smolts, or straying as adults to spawn in the natural environment. One thing I think this should mean to all WFFers is that when we hear, "don't sweat the small stuff," it means don't worry none about a sport fisherman bonking an unmarked south sound coho when it is legal to do so. Even if it is wild, it's genetic roots are traceable to the Green River or Puyallup salmon hatcheries. There are so much better places to expend one's concerns about and efforts toward wild fish conservation.
And for Mr. Welch, who tends to discount posts written under a handle than an actual name, I beg some leniency because Salmo g. has more than 15 years of internet fisheries credibility, vastly overwhelming any street cred earned under my non-cyber persona.
Salmo g, does that mean I can't act all indignant... like fly fishing is some kind of physical therapy for the fish I catch and release?