NW Flyfishing...part of the problem?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Piscivorous, Dec 15, 2006.

  1. JS

    JS Active Member

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    Ahhhh a diversion! brilliant!
     
  2. BFK

    BFK Member

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    Interesting thread. Since I haven't read the article nor fished the river, I can't say whether additional pressure will be harmful, but I do have an observation.

    In the 1980s, I wrote an article for Outdoor Life where I named some of the smaller steelhead streams on the OP. You know the ones, the Pysht, Hoko, Clallam and some others...

    In the 1990s, a writer for Salmon Trout Steelheader wrote about those same streams, and one board I frequent was ready to lynch the guy because he outed their zipperlip rivers...the same ones I covered 10 years earlier. I'll bet that a writer could cover those same rivers today, and there would be fishermen who would shout for his blood because he was giving secrets away.

    Fame is really fleeting in the fishing world, especially for those rivers where the fishing isn't stellar-- which sounds like it's the case with the South Fork of the Toutle.

    In my experience, there will be a burst of pressure on the SFT, and then it will fall off...and in three or four years, it will once again become a secret river.

    However, as several have pointed out, there are more fishermen in Washington every year, and it's population pressure that will cause more harm to a given watershed and run of fish than a few extra fly fishermen.

    BFK
     
  3. Flyborg

    Flyborg Active Member

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    My first time fishing the SF Toutle in the winter, the friend who was showing me the ropes almost drowned. That river was a severe bitch to fish. With so many other excellent fisheries close by, I can't imagine the Toutle will ever be anything but a sideline for the Cowlitz crowd (who are probably amping at the new 6 adult steel limit). It's a beautiful river, but the "crowd" we're all talking about aren't looking for beauty.
     
  4. FlyFishSteelhead

    FlyFishSteelhead New Member

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    NWF -- Not The Real Problem

    I can see both sides of the coin here. I can definately see how publishing fishing reports about small rivers will bring more traffic to areas that cannot handle the angling pressure. I can see that reviews certainly can help get to know an area without actually having to travel and visit that area. Also areas that get good reviews see a higher amount of business. Living in rural Montana, I know that it can be a help for the local businesses. I also know that it's nice to keep those areas rural.

    Having a vendetta against NWF is going a little far... I mean what does your local fly shop do when someone calls them and wants to know where the best place to go fish is? What do angling reports do? One can gain a ton of knowledge about how the fishing is in that area by reading such reports rather than getting in the car and actually going there.

    I in fact am a reader of NWF. I enjoy the articles and reviews of the streams. Outside of the articles I enjoy reading about what flys are hot and how to tye them. I have NOT ventured out to any of the mentioned fisheries. If I lived in the areas that are mentioned in the articles I might venture down to see those streams.

    It's all about moderation here guys. If everyone practiced a little moderation and was aware of the resource and didn't abuse it, than things would be fine. If you really have a serious protest to such magazines and articles than write the editor. Also if you have such strong feelings about the way that the State of Washington is handling the fishing regulations then someone needs to start writing people who could make a difference. If all we do is ramble on and on, on a POST online then we won't make any difference.

    Write your congressmen or the editor of the magazine not a POST online...
     
  5. I thought it was a great article and I will hopefully fish SFT someday. :D
     
  6. windtickler

    windtickler Member

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    I read that article and my thoughts on the escapment numbers were that they were higher than ones I've heard quoted for the Sky in recent years. Of course that is second hand info, but if it's correct, then we are discussing the wrong issues...
    I've also written for that magazine, and went through an extensive fact check with them. I do wish, however that they did have a letters section to air some of these concerns. I have to ask, how many people who stopped reading the magazine emailed the editorial staff with your concerns? Obviously, you bought the magazine for something. What were you thinking you were going to see in there? I think it's maybe just because its so regional. If you bought a national magazine and they put an article or so on the NW/year, no problem, but if they did one every month, people here would get upset. It's like buying Playboy and cancelling the subcription because your sister posed. It's not Playboy's fault your sister is hot; you're just upset because they landed too close to home.

    I'm sure if you had a "fix" to the problem, they would like to hear about it.
     
  7. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

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    Hey wait a minute. If I had a hot sister in Playboy the last thing I'd do is cancel...that's my only chance at a peeksie without getting smacked..:cool:
     
  8. Christian Brewer

    Christian Brewer Super Slacker

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    If Ford Fenders sister looked anything like him and posed nude for Playboy I'd definitely cancel my subscription...right after I scratched my burning eyes out out of their sockets!!!
    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:
     
  9. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Did anyone notice the irony in the article about "kiss and tell fishermen" a few sections later in the same mag?
     
  10. Jason Decker

    Jason Decker Active Member

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    Chadk, i was just thinking the same thing about 5 minutes ago reading the mag in the crapper
     
  11. Canoe Rider

    Canoe Rider Member

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    My sentiments exactly. Basically every river and creek in this state worth fishing has been "discovered" and has info written in articles, books, web posts, etc.

    There is no getting away from the "easy access = more fishing pressure" equation. The harder it is to get to a spot, the less pressure and usually better fishing. Difficult access is what ultimately protects those precious "secret spots".

    The C&R FF crowd has the least impact so why get angry at fellow FFs reading a highly enjoyable magazine? Logging, mining, commercial fishing, dams, and even gear fishing have a much greater impact.

    I like the magazine and think they do the best job of all the outdoor activity magazines I read. And I can't imagine that each article, regardless of how great it makes a body of water sound, creates a permanent increase in visitors and fishing pressure that ultimately damages fish populations. At worst, a spike in fishing activity for 1-2 months afterwards...
     
  12. o mykiss

    o mykiss Active Member

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    And therein lies the beauty of NWFF's decision to double the number of issues per year! See, just when all its readers are finally getting around to checking out the zipperlips exposed in the last issue, NWFF comes out with a new issue with new zipperlip spots, so everyone forgets about the ones in the last issue, make plans to hit the new ones, etc. It is a never-ending cycle that will actually reduce pressure on these secret and/or fragile fisheries! As they say on the Guiness ads, "Brilliant!!!":beer1:
     
  13. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

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    Windtickler -
    I was a first year subscriber (had great hopes of a region magazine) but when I had an issue with an article (targeting closed species) and followed up by emailing detailed comments regarding those concerns to editors. It was the unsatisfactory response that lead to my decision not to renew. In that situation the only "vote" I have is with my $$s.

    I have not read the article in question though I did read the Sauk article by the same author and found it to be factual and well written. I don't really have a problem with most of the authors after all it is the editors (and ultimately the readers) who are determing the content of the magazine based on what folks think will sell. Pretty clear that many like "kiss and tell" articles - IMHO probably just another example of many in today's society desire to fast track everything.

    Tight lines
    Curt
     
  14. windtickler

    windtickler Member

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    Curt,

    I'm really sorry that you didn't get a good response from the editorial staff. My mileage has varied there, too.

    I always considered many of those articles for armchair fishing, and not worried too much about it. I mean really, reading about $5k/wk lodges is like reading about DRC wines in The Spectator - nice to think about, but not something I'm likely to experience anytime soon.

    Then there is the instant gratification factor: Anybody who is going to rush off and fish this month's hot spot will probably be at next month's hot spot and you will be left alone again. Of course there is the breed of fly fisherman who seem to relish company. Every time I used to drive by Cracker bar it amazed me that people would stand shoulder to shoulder when there is better fishing in any direction with less than a ten minute walk (and a "secret" river not too far away).

    I did use that magazine to find the best river I've ever fished, but even the locals were amazed to find there was fish in it, so apparently a little exposure doesn't ruin the more remote spots.

    As I said in my article, the purpose isn't to put you onto some secret spot, it's about getting you to think about the possibilities right under your nose, to get you to go out and explore. To find your own secret stashes. I spent a year fishing within a 30 minute radius of Sea-Tac, and pretty much didn't see another fisherman. I think there is still some room out there.
     
  15. Dan Page

    Dan Page Active Member

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    I used to live close to the Toutle and caught my first steelhead on the South Fork many years ago. It was caught in the summer. It can be pretty crowded in the summer, but not fished much in winter. The last few years it has gotten more fishing pressure, mostly by fly guys because of the selective gear rule. It's not the easiest river to fish. It also blows out quick and can get down to a trickle even in the winter. I have never seen a pontoon on it and am not sure I would even want to take one on it.

    When I first saw the NWF article I was pretty upset. After reading it I calmed down some. He didn't really say much except draw attention to it. Like he says in the article--timing is everything. I have made trips there and didn't even put my waders on. In a few months most will have forgotten it.
    I do read the magazine cause it's the only one I've found that devotes much of anything to spey and focuses on the NW.
     
  16. Richard Olmstead

    Richard Olmstead BigDog

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    I like NWFF. I like the articles on important figures in the history of NW fly fishing, I like the articles on fly tyers and their contributions to the sport, but I like the destination destination articles best.

    Before you write me off, let me explain. I like armchair angling. Truth be told, most of us who are tied to jobs in the city have a lot more time for armchair angling than for 'real' angling and there is only so much Roderick Haig-Brown out there to read. I hope that all of you who enjoy reading the rags, also are spending time with the true literature of the sport.

    In fact, the articles I like best are the ones about places I know best. Reading them (and gazing at the excellent photography in NWFF) on a dark winter's eve takes me there. That's always good.

    On rare occasion, once to be exact, I've actually gone out of my way to visit a river featured in NWFF. It was a beautiful place that I would otherwise not have visited and I only saw one or two other fishermen in the 3 days I was there. My experience was similar to Windtickler's, it was a river that had been converted from put & take to C&R and the clerk at a local store sounded surprised to hear there were still any fish in it! I hope to get back there some day.

    However, mostly I think I'm just burned out on getting upset at having my favorite spot 'outed.' I got over that long ago, before I took up fly fishing. In my yoot, I was a climber and I was upset everytime a climbing rag featured one of 'my' secret crags.

    Canoerider got it right. The human-caused impact from any of a large number of activities is much greater on the places I love than is the impact of a few others practicing the sport I love, be it climbing or fly fishing.

    Generally, I enjoy the interactions I have with other fly fishers I meet on the river. I know the places to go to get away from the crowds; perhaps that's the reason I do enjoy the interactions, because I know that the folks I meet have made the same effort I have.

    Dick
     
  17. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    I'll weigh in on this thread.
    First and foremost Northwest Flyfishing is about fly-fishing in the Pacific Northwest, which is where the Toutle River system is located. I fished the mainstem and the south fork since the late-1950s. I was a Weyerhaeuser employee when Mt. St. Helens went off and witnessed what was left of our Blue Mountain facility after it was wiped out along with the rest of the Toutle system. It was an absolutely incredible act of nature.
    I also saw the Toutle system come back over time and have enjoyed some excellent fishing in both the main stem and south fork. Nature generally gives back what she takes away -- on her own timetable.
    I see nothing wrong with writing about the Toutle River. The article was in fact very well done with a good close on the future of the river. I'm writing here as one who is an experienced magazine editor in this field. Bennett was simply the messenger. And I doubt very much that his article will have caravans of "fly fishermen" charging down to line the banks of the Toutle system and overfish it.
    All of these rivers have been around for hundreds of centuries and they'll be here for a whole lot more -- surely longer than all who seem to be laying claim to them by taking shots at either Northwest Fly Fishing, or Mr. Bennett.
    You aren't going to improve the conditions of our rivers or the protocol of some of the posters on this thread by the present three pages of sounding off. If you want to do something, give up your time and/or some of your money to support programs aimed as saving our rivers. If you don't want to do this. Then I guess you may as well just keep on railing against any subject that bothers you by starting a thread on this web site.
    For all of you who spoke up in favor of a free press. I applaud you.
    Good Fishing,
    Les Johnson
     
  18. sashjo

    sashjo Member

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    Decker,
    Did your physician ever advise you to never read in the crapper? It should be hit and run unless you happen to like hemorroids.
     
  19. redband

    redband New Member

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    Enough said.
     
  20. 05tacoma

    05tacoma Member

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    They're not part of the problem, just part of the free market. When people stop buying the magazine, no more rivers will get "outed." Apparently, there are enough people that read the magazine to make it a viable business. When it ceases to make any money the problem is solved. So rather than bash the magazine, bash the consumer. They are the reason it exists.
     

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