Occupy Skagit Redux

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by _WW_, Jan 14, 2013.

  1. For the record, let's not confuse members Freestone Angler and Freestone. Each deserves individual consideration for their comments.

    Also, this them read is about some folks wanti g to be seen and be heard. They are not attempting to make anyone join them. Take a step back, reel fresh your perspective. Participate or dont, but keep the discussion on target.
  2. Have I mentioned anything that was not about this event or its purpose?
  3. Nope. Will you be? I think this is a nice grassroots display of the power of people to meet and show those making the rules that some rules should be reconsidered.
  4. If the sought after C&R fishery adds any level of risk to wild fish recovery...how is this action justified? -FSA

    Is it fair to say that the reason there is currently no C&R fishery is because it has been determined by WDFW that the benefits do not outweigh the risk? I should think most on this forum would want to take a very conservative position on this...and forgo the desire to fulfill personal benefit.FSA

    There is a lot more benefits to having a fishing season than than simply fulfilling a personal agenda."- FSA

    If not for personal or financial gain, what might the benefits be? I think anyone supporting this event should be prepared to answer these questions...certainly something an impartial investigative journalist should ask.- FSA

    The questions are only stupid to someone like yourself who clearly cannot provide an answer and likes to attempt to shout down others with differing opinions (keyword here Charles, opinions). Not having a C&R fishery clearly reduces impact to the fishery; to argue otherwise simply means you support the cause for benefits that are not in the best interest of the fish.

    Stop trying to be a big shot, blowhard and maybe some might take you seriously. -FSA

    Charles Sullivan said:
    Freestone, I have had disagreements with many of those who post on these mangement threads regularly. SG, Bellows, DeLeone, Johnson, Smalma etc. I have different positions on topics with them often. It doesn't turn into a pissing match. Why only you?​
    Go Sox,​
    Go back to your first response to my post and you might see the answer to your question. FSA

    I have put all your words on this thread and a few of mine above. My reply:There is no risk of wild fish recovery from a C&R fishery. The best available science indicates so as stated by me, Dele et al. OS is abouted allowing C&R whwen run sizes exceed escapement floors. In short ,the justification is that it does not add any risk of recovery.

    As far as your "first response" answering my question:"Freestone, I have had disagreements with many of those who post on these mangement threads regularly. SG, Bellows, DeLeone, Johnson, Smalma etc. I have different positions on topics with them often. It doesn't turn into a pissing match. Why only you?" Bellows has made the case in the past that C&R season may effect spawning success. I don't agree, but he doesn't lie like you do. I respect his position.

    In the past Smalma and I have disagreed about what the potential and actual impact of hatchery winter steelhead are on wild fish escapements. I respect Smalma, as he has not lied about my position and uses the best available science as he sees it. This equals no pissing match. Want me to continue?

    At the end of the day it's about integrity, honesty, and doing you homework/ showing your work. Life would be easier if I ignored you as KS has. However, I have this overwhelming love for honest and best available science.Go Sox,cds
    Go Sox,
  5. BTW- NIce to see HBW back. Welcome back!

    Go Sox,
  6. Thank you, Ed!!! I was starting to think about changing my name so as to avoid the confusion...
  7. i support occupy skagit for more than just spreading fishing pressure from the area i live in.

    i had the pleasure of fishing the skagit for around ten total days in the late 90's. i never touched a steelhead but i have fond memories of floating and swinging flies through such beautiful water.

    the skagit cuts a huge swath in the history of fly fishing for winter steelhead. many of the lines, flies, and techniques we use throughout the west were born in the broad runs of the skagit river. our sport is richer because of the skagit and the fishermen who called it home every winter. age and time can take many of the fishermen away from the rivers, but losing the rivers creates a much larger hole in the sport as it stops the historical connection of our and future generations from those who preceded us. i've felt a timeless bond when i've fished waters steeped in tradition and that connection to our past has been taken away from all of us with these closures.
    Richard Torres, miyawaki and Ed Call like this.
  8. We have been having several parallel discussions on the forum that directly address your very concern. Go back and read them, more importantly, read the studies and the ESA decision that are linked to in those threads. The short answer to your question: The Skagit Basin in and of itself is not in need of recovery. It never was. It's simply a case of the feds throwing the baby out with the bathwater. The Skagit was lumped in with depressed rivers because of its geographical location even though the decision itself described the runs as "relatively large" and acknowledged the co-managers decision to reduce the escapement goal after re-thinking the carrying capacity of the system.
    No, that is not fair. There is no C&R season on the Skagit because there is no provision in the decision to open a single healthy river. None of them in Puget Sound, from the Elwah to the Nooksak will open for a C&R over wild fish until a significant number of them 'recover'...and even then the decision is ambiguous. This is what we would like to change.
    I cannot answer why other men choose to fish. I do it because it pleases me.
    Which 'margins' are you refering to? And in case you failed to notice, we have NOT been operating. :)
    C&R fishing is just about as conservative as you can get.
    This is exactly what we are doing in what we consider a seperate, but parallel action. We are attempting to get a block of time at a commissioners meeting to present our position. Once we know when that date will be, we plan to put out the call to get you to attend in support.
  9. Yes, it is good to see him post again. FYI; that is HBW in the Occupy Skagit Facebook page photo.
  10. Thanks guys. I came back because I wanted to voice my support for this event and say that I will be there.

    At this point I am thinking a long rod with full floater and some yarn to pretend fish with for the day.

    I would be wary of throwing anything more complex even without a hook for fear of getting a ticket for harassing fish.
    Chris DeLeone likes this.

  11. Let's show how much we love these fish and this river not only by showing up, but by doing something for them, too. Unlike the reports of certain sites of other Occupy movements, how about we leave the Skagit and Sauk Rivers a better place than we found them? I hope people don't find the idea of cleaning up the rivers as a part of this "movement" to be too complex an idea, tantamount to overthinking or muddying the mission.

    Perhaps somebody would be willing to throw in some swag for the "best trash", most trash, etc. When I used to live in Anchorage, this used to be an annual Kenai River event. Loads of fun too.

    Besides, it is all that much harder to give a ticket to a group not only making a statement, but also doing some good.


    Salmo_g and Richard Torres like this.
  12. Earlier in the thread you guys talked about where to be visible. I would think the swift creek access is about the most visible on that upper stretch of the skagit. Someone mentioned Youngs bar which was never part of the c&r area it ended at dalles rd bridge in concrete. One thing I've been wondering about this whole idea is, it's my understanding these rivers are closed due to esa listing. Which makes this a federal issue and takes it out of wdfw hands. So how is wdfw taking notice going to do anything to change the current regulation. I guess I have the perception when something becomes federal it is nearly impossible for the people to sway the tide so to speak. I know I'm not a regular poster but I find this issue striking a nerve as I grew up fly fishing the Skagit with my mentor. I dont live in the area anymore but am thinking of making the journey to participate in this. Either way I sincerely hope you guys are successful!
  13. If the 50+ different fish stocks in the Puget Sound listing were evaluated independently basin by basin, (as is currently being done with Puget Sound Chinook) as opposed to being judged in aggregate, it is most likely the Skagit would have escaped the listing.
    miyawaki likes this.
  14. Riverrun - I am well ahead of you on this point - thank you.

    I think its a good thought that people protesting the managing of the C&R season are very conservation minded and want the river and all places they haunt clean and as undisturbed as possible.
    miyawaki likes this.
  15. ww I wasn't aware of the Chinook and Steelies being evaluated differently. Probably due to the commercial guys and indians throwing a fit. Let's rage on with our "fit" then! Sorry if I showed up and sound like a 12 year old boy talking about women...... I had all but given up on steelhead , been living in MT the last couple years came back to Roslyn this winter to see a girl. I find myself all excited about steelhead even though they are so depressed and we dont get a crack at them when they are in. Just goes to show once you've been bit with the steelie bug you can never really get rid of it!
    miyawaki likes this.
  16. WW,
    First, thanks for response and more importantly the tone which is was delivered -- civil. I see what you are saying about the Skagit being thrown into the Puget Sound wide stew-pot rather than being discretely managed. Perhaps the WDFW felt that having a single river open would simply create a Cowlitz of the north...which would be far worse for obvious reasons. What I mean my "close to margins" is simply that stocks are quite depressed overall as compared to historic run sizes and making decisions such as what is being proposed may not be the most prudent thing to do until things significantly improve. We (south-sounders) haven't been able to fish the Green, Puyallup and Nisqually for the wild fish run for a good many years now...sure would love too...some of my most memorable catches were on the Green and Nisqually.

    If it's all about the fish and rebuilding numbers of wild fish, certainly not adding any risk that a C&R fishery might introduce would be the most conservative approach, don't you think? If this is interpreted as being more about fisherman wanting to fish than doing all we can to protect them, that may not play well.
  17. See some b.c. boys plan on coming down ...Im not sure spreading out makes much sense...news crews don't travel well and big crowds or line ups in the water..lots of boats, toons, whatever makes for a better story!!! Don't think many people outside other fisherman give a rats ass about what's happening....IMHO the statement has to be made large...large groups get recognized!!! Piss around by spreading out any you'll be lucky is anyone even cares if you have a hook or not...
  18. My thought was that if the river is closed, what difference does it make where you protest? How many people are going to see you @ Howard Miller or Swift creek? The easier it is to find us, the more impact it will have. We're not really fishing, we're making a statement. The more people who can see and hear that statement the better.
    Bert likes this.
  19. What's more important is the fact that, if stocks had been evaluated seperatley, some would have easily warranted an endangered listing. To lump Cedar River steelhead--(+/-) extinct--and skagit steelhead in the same boat isn't appropriate.

    As to location, I say, central kick off point and then people spread out.
    Andrew Lawrence likes this.
  20. I've seen people on another site talking about floating the river in drift boats. Floating the river and pretending to fish the chapel drift and power lines seems kind of pointless. The idea is to be seen.
    Looking forward to more details.

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