Occupy the Klickitat?

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by Klickrolf, Mar 30, 2014.

  1. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    As many or you know the Klickitat has a stong run of wild winter steelhead but we don't get to fish them. Many local and semi-locals fish them while supposedly fishing for whitefish. There are also plenty of hatchery summer run fish that remain and should be removed prior to spawning.

    The Occupy Skagit threads got me thinking and I can't see any reason the Klickitat shouldn't be open for C&R fishing with a mandatory hatchery harvest and single barbless, baitless hook fishery during the winter.

    Hope to hear your thoughts on this and how it might be pushed forward. The Klickitat is not particulary conducive to winter fishing but there are times when the water is good and flows are reasonably fishable.
     
    David Dalan, jake-e-boy and Ed Call like this.
  2. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 2004
    Messages:
    7,826
    Media:
    6
    Likes Received:
    1,899
    Location:
    Your City ,State
    Maybe WDFW calculates that the allowable "take" of listed steelhead has been reached by the time the winter season would kick in. In some cases it just looks like "closed" is the easiest management alternative. My personal view is that water should be open to fishing, even if it means using some complicated regulations, unless there is a clear conservation reason for it not being open.

    Sg
     
    David Dalan, Ed Call and flybill like this.
  3. jake-e-boy

    jake-e-boy No mas

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    287
    I'll occupy the klick with ya, since I moved so far away from the skagit and need more swinging water! Could we technically swing it now though? For "whitefish" and then once Tuesday hits for steel on the lower stretch?

    Edit: sorry suck at reading. Is the run done by April and that's why it opens again?
     
  4. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    I couldn't agree with you more. Trouble here is poaching would likely go crazy, but a little enforcement and reasonable regs could address the issue.
     
  5. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    The "Run" never ends here, 12 months of the year, some better than others but fish come throughout the year.

    There's no swinging water below fisher hill bridge unless you're the only one of very few fisherman present. You can swing anywhere you like until Mar 31 with a size 14 hook (not sure if it has to be barbless, that's a new reg I haven't looked into for whitefish).
     
  6. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    207
    Location:
    The Hood
    So are you saying open year round or closes for a while then reopens?

    I'm happy to let her rest especially if we avoid downstream fish that might come back as big moe.
     
  7. jake-e-boy

    jake-e-boy No mas

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2013
    Messages:
    633
    Likes Received:
    287
    I understand summer runs being in the river 365 but was referring to the winter runs
     
  8. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    Don't see a reason to close it exept maybe upriver. Say closed from Leidl up. Very little in mainstem spawing below Leidl. Good to get your input Yard Sale!
     
  9. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    The wild winter run is probably stonger than the wild summer run. Can't prove it but think the tribe has data that would.
     
    jake-e-boy likes this.
  10. Yard Sale

    Yard Sale Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2008
    Messages:
    441
    Likes Received:
    207
    Location:
    The Hood
    I could see it if we could trade off some of the fall pressure. Maybe a permit system or a boat fishing ban but a longer season. Gotta be a trade off though, this run gets pounded enough.
     
    jake-e-boy likes this.
  11. JesseC

    JesseC Active Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2009
    Messages:
    2,097
    Media:
    5
    Likes Received:
    854
    Location:
    seattle, wa
    The data source I'm looking at shows you'd be fishing for about 15 fish. Sounds fun, especially since I know your winters are so balmy.
     
  12. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    The winter run doesn't get pounded at all, it doesn't get fished except for the whitefish guys, few and far between.

    JesseC, 15 might be close but I was thinking more like 16. Don't know of your data source but confidently can suggest it's a little low.

    The new ladder trap is normally left open in the winter, fish swim through and are not counted unless the trap is being used. Most steelhead swim up and over Lyle falls, they don't use the ladder and don't get counted...those that use the ladder when the trap is not utilized swim right on through and are not counted. It's open in the winter and no fish are counted. Check the numbers and dates here http://www.ykfp.org/klickitat/Data_lyleadulttrap.htm
     
  13. hydrological

    hydrological beads are NOT flies and snagging is just ghetto

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    Messages:
    566
    Likes Received:
    114
    Location:
    inland
    this.
    i would buy a wash. license again for this.
     
    jake-e-boy likes this.
  14. Smalma

    Smalma Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2004
    Messages:
    2,942
    Likes Received:
    865
    Location:
    Marysville, Washington
    Klickroff -
    Don't know much about the Klickitat and a brief search of some of normal sources of info didn't produce much.

    Do you know what portion of the winter run uses the ladder (total run size)? What is the winter escapement goal? What have recent escapements been? What is the allowable ESA "take" imapcts? and What have those impacts been in recent years?

    For your idea to gain much traction I suspect that some of that info will be needed.

    Curt
     
  15. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    Thanks for chiming in Curt. If my recollection is correct somewhere around 25 to 30% use the ladder...but that of course is very flow dependant and winter flows "likely" make passage over the falls much easier so I'd assume fewer use the ladder in the winter.

    I don't think the YKFP or WDFW do much research on the winter fish...I've never heard of "winter escapement goals" on the Klickitat. The fishery is closed from Dec 1 though May 30. There are plenty of steelhead caught in the winter (whitefish fishery with size 14 or smaller hook restriction).

    If you check the link I provided above you'd see no data for 2014 at lyle falls fishway and the data pretty much dies as December 1 rolls around.

    There was a study done in Feb. 2000 or 2001 with WDFW, An experimental fishery looking for adfluvial bull trout. Six or so(?) boats once a week from Leidl to Pitt (1 boat per section) for 4 weeks and I caught more steelhead than I normally do in the summer. Never got skunked, and all I did was swing flies. Most other participants were using salmon smolts for bait or throwing spinners.

    I know the idea of extending the season here has been tossed around and presented to WDFW in the past but I think the YKFP has squashed it based on "not enough data to support it."
     
  16. WT

    WT Member

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2003
    Messages:
    779
    Likes Received:
    18
    Location:
    Seattle, WA, USA.
    I'm in.
     
  17. David Dalan

    David Dalan 69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E

    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2007
    Messages:
    2,111
    Media:
    44
    Likes Received:
    854
    Location:
    Walla Walla, WA
    Interesting.
     
  18. TomB

    TomB Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2004
    Messages:
    1,627
    Likes Received:
    63
    Location:
    seattle,wa
    I don't dispute that there are some number of winter runs on the Klickitat but I would also point out that summer runs are still holding in the river in February and may have comprised a lot if not all of your catch. Low light levels, higher water, and no angling pressure for months combine to make them bite quite well in the winter. Also, this whole question of the proportion of winters and summers in the river would be a moot point if the YN representatively PIT tagged smolts (such as through the use of a smolt trap) which could then be detected at Bonneville Dam. Thus far, this has not happened, at least in sufficient numbers. A cursory look at the limited PIT data for the Klickitat suggests that the majority of fish returned to BON during summer months, not winter. One other thing worth noting is that new arrivals in the winter may in fact consist of summers that have remained in the Columbia mainstem or other tributaries for months before migrating to the Klickitat. This is seen frequently in other gorge tributaries.

     
    Salmo_g and Paul Huffman like this.
  19. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    Wouldn't dispute anything you've stated above Tom, and thanks for jumping in. I do recall working up a kelt steelhead during the adfluvial bull trout study but the others were dime bright or very close so I assumed they were fresh winter fish.

    Thanks to Tom's input, I spent a couple hours querying ptagis 2013 database and learned alot, thanks for the motivation Tom. Only looked at "wild" fish and "LYLFAT" and "Bonneville inclusive" tag detections. Lyle falls detections seem to be only adult fish with radio tags, they have tag numbers but I don't think those are PIT tags unless they are PIT tagging adults while also radio tagging them.

    I wonder if the YN fisheries program actually PIT tags any wild steelhead smolts, other than the study that tagged this one in White Cr (tag # 3D9.1C2D82E2D9). Of course no one knows if a wild parr or smolt is a winter fish until it returns as an adult.

    Only looked through about the first half of the detections database at Bonneville. The following 2 tagged fish were adults with radio tags, if they were PIT tagged as smolts the ptagis database doesn't disclose where or when. Tag #'s 3D9.1C2C9AAF5D and 3D9.1C2C968288, both of these fish appear to be adults when tagged, radio tags noted? Likely heading downriver to become repeat spawners. All and any input would be greatly appreciated. Likely the winter fish are more successful as repeat spawners.

    One thing I noticed that really tripped my triger was all the detections for ToppenC fish! That's Toppenish Creek, trib of the Yakima River, I bust my teeth on that creek and am very pleased to see some serious follow-up being done there.

    I'm no ptagis expert and likely am not fully understanding what I see in the database so I hope to be corrected if I got any of this wrong. Once again, I did the queryies for wild fish only at Bonneville and Lyle falls and only looked at about the first half of the data that was supplied at Bonneville.

    I'm convinced there are plenty of wild winter fish visiting the Klickitat and wish there were some efforts to really figure this out...it ain't that hard!!

    I'm not advocating an actual "Occuply the Klickitat" as done on the Skagit but I am wondering what makes the Klickitat a summer only fishery when there appears to be a good bit of evidence that the winter run is relatively healthy and could benefit from removal a few more hatchery fish. Please forgive the disjointed post, been researching and typing as I go and didn't take the time to rewrite it succinctly.

    Here's what I'm trying to say, with PIT tags and radio tags and a ton of money devoted to anadromous fisheries why don't we know why we can't enjoy a C&R winter session devoted to diminishing hatchery fish impact on the wild gene-bank of the Klickitat River.
     
  20. Klickrolf

    Klickrolf Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2010
    Messages:
    642
    Likes Received:
    210
    Location:
    Klickitat, Washington
    Was hoping for some sort of response. I see Paul and Salmo have read and hope Curt and TomB might have taken another look at the data. I'll try again.

    Went back to ptagis, searched for wild steelhead over Bonneville once again. Used "Adult ladder " option "all three Bonn". Then "Prior Year", then stlhd, then "all" (for run date), then "wild".

    I found 4 (four) Klickitat steelhead that were detected in 2013 and only one was a juvenile and that was the "only" PIT tagged fish that was detected (tag #3D9.1C2D06F7E1) in 2013. Two wild (2) adults radio tagged at Lyle Falls and labeled "wild WINTER" fish and one (1) fish labeled "summer steelhead" but that was also radio tagged as an adult and had no history of prior tagging.

    Truth is we have no data! There is no demonstrated interest in learning about wild steelhead on the Klickitat, be it summer or winter. I'm disappointed and believe wild Klickitat steelhead deserve better.
     

Share This Page