Outcast Frameless Oar Mounts

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by SpeyFitter, Apr 14, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. SpeyFitter Active Member

    Posts: 137
    Coquitlam, BC, Canada
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    INteresting video - they look like they've put a bit more thought into frameless oar mounts than some of the competitors. Not saying I'm a fan of these for whitewater use yet, but worthwhile to see anyways.
  2. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,159
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +111 / 0
  3. ralfish Active Member

    Posts: 297
    B.C.
    Ratings: +48 / 0
    After nearly 10 years of whitewater use my Watermaster has had zero issues. I however did replace what in the video is an aluminum tube on the outcast with what originally was an abs tube with a solid piece of uhmw. This won't break or wear out in my lifetime. Seems the Watermaster version are the cats ass compared to the issue prone scadden versions. Cant speak to outcast as they are the new kids on the block with this type of system...the other thing I have done is gone to one piece oars as the two piece break at the diameter transition right at the junction point, kind of a poor design from Carlisle. To prevent the pin holes from ovalising I install a piece of 1-1/4" x 5" abs pipe over the shaft, much like the stock original oars. Just heat it up with a heat gun and slip it over then drill the hole.
  4. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,159
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    Who makes Watermasters? I was under the impression that NFO buys theirs as does NRS from the same factory. You can see the glue on portion of Outcast is different from the others, so I understand the "made at a different manufactory.
  5. sportsman Active Member

    Posts: 809
    Kirkland, wa., 98034.
    Ratings: +80 / 0
    railfish quote:
    " Seems the Watermaster version are the cats ass compared to the issue prone scadden versions". WTF?? You don't have a clue what you are talking about. NFO...or scadden as you prefer, has sold thousands of rafts in mostly 10-12 styles over the last 10 years. Watermaster has sold a few hundred in that time, if that. How many 'failures' can you document? How many were user errors, using oars that are better suited to a framed model or impacting them against truck beds or boulders. What percentage are "scadden prone failures" to total rafts Dave has sold? Maybe .001% ??!! I have owned and used Watermasters , Waterstriders and now a Renegade for a lot longer than you stated along with most of my buddies who have owned all 3 and have never had or heard of this kind of failure. I guess outcast has had a problem, otherwise why the new design...which is a little better.but an overkill. Thru bolt the pin in 2 places, why, I have never seen or heard of one backing out and that's a lot of miles and oar strokes. I know none of this matters to you [ facts that is ] anything to jump on, dare I say, scaaaaden. Just go bounce your head off some boulders on some BC rivers. BOATS: Waterstrider, NFO,SFC. Rods GLX, IMX, Sage Batson RX8+. Reels Lamson Velocitys, Ross Rhythm .Lines: a lot. Engines 747,767, 777 GE's, Pratts TF-40"s 327 small blocks, 454 big blocks. 175+ on the road, 110+ in the open ocean[well, the Med. anyway] get the hint? who gives a shit?
    Blue likes this.
  6. ralfish Active Member

    Posts: 297
    B.C.
    Ratings: +48 / 0
    Let me type this a bit slower so maybe you will comprehend what this thread is about. We are talking about the glue on/weld on oar lock system with the through the oar pin. I'm not sure how long scadden has been selling this specific oar lock system for, but not anywhere as long as Watermaster so your comment about how many types of rafts or how many scaddens have been sold etc has zero to do with what we are talking about in this thread. Who cares about you or you friends or anything else you have written, as if that has any bearing what so ever on the topic. If you do a search on this board you will find the issues specific to scadden and this type of oarlock system, even with pics so someone with very low reading comprehension would still understand . You still following or am I typing too fast ?

    Here is a pic of a failed scadden oar lock : [IMG]


    http://www.washingtonflyfishing.com/forum/index.php?attachments/image-jpg.38685/
    Steezn290 likes this.
  7. sportsman Active Member

    Posts: 809
    Kirkland, wa., 98034.
    Ratings: +80 / 0
    Everyone but you knew I was referring to the this system. Why do you say glue on/ weld on? Don't you know that everyone heat welds, including the D-ring patches? The % of rafts to failures is exactly the point. The best design in the world can fail due to a MFG's problem. I suspect operator error or abuse[not intentional] would cause that type of problem, but the build process could be the issue. And it's not possible for you type, think or speak too fast for me.
  8. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,159
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    Correct me if I am wrong, but NONE of these boat companies make these, they buy them. I can't imagine there are that many manufacturers, is there? We have a rafting company here that has these glue/weld ons for sell. I am betting they too buy them from one of the manufacturer. Can someone shed some light on this?
  9. Steezn290 Member

    Posts: 80
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    I can't really shed light on if the come out of the same manufacture or not. But what I can say is all glue on/heat welded oar lock systems aren't the same. That NFO one is not the same as my watermaster and the outcast is not the same either. They are different products even if they come out of the same manufacture. Thus the controversy.
  10. Steezn290 Member

    Posts: 80
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    First off i'm not really 100% sure heat welding is the right term to use. First off the definition of weld is "join together (metal pieces or parts) by heating the surfaces to the point of melting using a blowtorch, electric arc, or other means, and uniting them by pressing, hammering, etc."
    the only true heat weld that I know of in the rafting industry is Maravia (thermofused technology).

    If it was truly welded when a d ring patch started to tear off it would rip a hole in the boat and it would deflate (unless it was bladder construction). The point of heating the two materials is to get a stronger bond with the glue. It is in no way making the two pieces one.
  11. sportsman Active Member

    Posts: 809
    Kirkland, wa., 98034.
    Ratings: +80 / 0
    Heat welded is exactly the corrrect term. Incept Marine, who made Watermasters for years and Waterstriders since 1998 heat welds oar mount pads and all of the D-ring patches. NFO.....same thing: heat welded. I would be very surprised to discover that outcast or Maravia does it differently, even with a raft with bladders. The seams on all the above rafts are heat welded. It's nothing new and has been the mainstay for a very long, long time. Heat Welded!
  12. Steezn290 Member

    Posts: 80
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    First off if you are talking about the seams of the boat you are 100% correct. I am not talking about the seams. I am talking about the oar mount and d rings.
  13. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,159
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    I have glued things on my boats but I have never got as bonded as the stock NFO are so I too assumed they were welded of some sort.
    Taking precaution to avoid breakage is a definite plus, but as the ol' saying, "$HT happens". I do recall reading one had theirs on the WM break so anything is possible. Add to that the numbers of boats sold with this kind of system and you can bet one will break here and there. I would not say NFO are more prone. But I think you will see more numbers of NFO boats out there which ups that chance.
    Thanks for the all the answers here.
  14. sportsman Active Member

    Posts: 809
    Kirkland, wa., 98034.
    Ratings: +80 / 0
    That is why I started the reply by saying "Oar Mount Pads and D-Ring patches. Imagine you are building a raft and you just finished "Heat Welding" the approximate 1" overlapped seams of the raft. Would you then put that equipment away and go grab a tube of glue to install everything else?? Think it out.
  15. Steezn290 Member

    Posts: 80
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    Go home and look at your D-ring patch and your raft seams. Tell me if they are even remotely the same.
  16. sportsman Active Member

    Posts: 809
    Kirkland, wa., 98034.
    Ratings: +80 / 0
    Give it a rest dude! I don't need to go home because I know that on my Waterstrider and my Renegade they are exactlythe same ....NO GLUE....WELDED. Too bad for you if your Watermaster has glue under them!
  17. Steezn290 Member

    Posts: 80
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    To not even go look is completely ARROGANT!
  18. sportsman Active Member

    Posts: 809
    Kirkland, wa., 98034.
    Ratings: +80 / 0
    Hey Sleezen, when you first posted about what raft to buy and how you were tired of being a guide and how you knew which end of a fly rod to pick up...I thought 2 things. Only raft this guy will buy is a Kodiak and that you were a punk. You proved me right on both counts and now your doing it again. Quit being a stupid punk and grow up! After Blue gave you so much good advice, you called her a liar! You then insinuated that Dave Scadden was guilty of questionable buisness practices by taking orders to pay past due bills. Quit being a punk. All of this you wrote when you were just blowing smoke out of where the sun doesn't shine. Quit being a punk!
  19. Steezn290 Member

    Posts: 80
    Ratings: +15 / 0
    Thanks for proving my last statement true!
  20. Blue Active Member

    Posts: 1,159
    Salt Lake City, UT
    Ratings: +111 / 0
    I do think it would be cool to have NRS, Outcast, Watermaster, Waterstrider, & NFO oar mounts all taken apart and a detailed description. But maybe I am putting way to much thought into it. I am betting they all can be broken at some point though.
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.