Outcast vs. Dave Scadden vs. Buck's

Discussion in 'Watercraft' started by salmotrutta77, Feb 23, 2011.

  1. I'm looking for a 9-10ft. pontoon and am leaning toward a boat w/standup option and was looking at Outcast 10ir and Scadden Madison boats does anyone know the differences between the two pros/cons? also , if i were to go conventional without standup feature which boat would u recommend between these 3? Outcast Panther, Buck's Bronco or Scadden Madison River? any help would be much appreciated or if u have any other suggestions, feel free. thanks jon.
  2. I have a Outcast pac900 that I picked up new last year. I use it for lakes , I have it rigged with 4 rod holders a depth sounder and electric trolling motor. Plus a cooler for refreshments and sandwiches. Love the boat. Cant stand up in it but I'm fine with that. I still have a Bucks southfork II ,I like the Outcast better as you are higher out of the water.
  3. Holy crap TM. I thought I carried alot of stuff. I also have a wheel attachment and carry an anchor. :rofl: Just no animals.
  4. Oh I have a anchor along I just dont use it much. I havent got a wheel for it yet.
  5. Hell, TM, sounds like you'll need wheelS, as in not just one. I have a Scadden Madison River that I bought before the standing platforms came along. I love it. It has been down the Deschutes in March and handles class 3 easily. I will keep it in the arsenal, even though I have gone frameless with Scadden.
  6. Have a trailer for it, can carry up to 4 pontoons.
  7. Posted by TroutMaster:Re: Outcast vs. Dave Scadden vs. Buck's

    Have a trailer for it, can carry up to 4 pontoons.

    Cool! I wanna go, can I go with, huh? Pretty please?
    I promise I'll be good, ....Honest!
  8. Cool! I wanna go, can I go with, huh? Pretty please?
    I promise I'll be good, ....Honest!

  9. Geez-o-whiz, ......?......?...TroutMaster, you ain't got to be so blunt about it, do ya? ......I might even offer to sit back there on the trailer, iffn you'd let me come along too?

    Oh! Nevermind! (grumble, grumble, ya ol' grumpybutt, meany grumble,sorehead, grumble), I didn't wanna really go anyhow, 'sides I'm way over here in Indiana, & that's a real far piece for you to drive over here to pick me up anyway. LOLOLOL

    And anyways, I got my own trout pond about a 1/4 mile to the north from where I live anyways, but I can catch Lake Perch, Small Mouth Bass, two/three different species of Salmon, & @ least two, maybe three, different species of Trout.
    Some folks around here call my troutpond, "The Lake", or some even call it Lake Michigan.
    Hoosier friend,
  10. If you are going to do Class III and IV water, I recommend a high quality framed boat. I have a Outcast PAC 900FS and am very pleased with it in the 'white stuff".
  11. Look into bigskyinflatables. Don't own one yet but that would be my first choice.
  12. I've owned pontoons by all three makers although not the exact models you indicated. Here's my overall impressions of each maker.

    Buck's Bags. The only stainless steel frames (that I'm aware of) available. Their boats are bulletproof and great for salt water use. Sadly, Buck's doesn't appear to be as innovative as they once were so their product offerings are pretty much the same as they've been the past 3-4 years. Their standing platform looks even more ungainly that the Scadden design.

    Scadden. Innovative designs but his attention to detail is a bit frustrating, especially at the price he charges. As an example, the stainless footrests on his Skykomish Sunrise frame, while removable, are NOT adjustable. If you've got long legs, putting your feet on the footrests while you row means the oar handles will bump your knees, if they clear your knees at all. Installing the side pockets on the same boat means that the oars will rub across the tops of the pockets since the oar towers appear to be about 1" too short. The folding standing platform lean bar won't fold all the way back if you've got anything more than about 1 foot tall on the rear deck. The lean bar then interferes with your elbows when you're rowing. These are small things that are minor annoyances. But taken together, they make me wonder how much time Dave actually spent testing his prototype designs? Or did he simply rush them into production to minimize expenses? How much more could longer footrests and two extra sets of holes have added to production costs?

    Outcast. Originally the lesser-quality of the two boats built in Boise (Buck's Bags being the other), since being purchased by Aire, they've introduced a slew of innovative new models. Their frames are bulletproof with well thought-out, ergonomic designs that actually fit real people, unlike Scadden's. Their quad-tube pontoons ride low in the water (minimizing the 'sail' effect), while providing an additional margin of safety that is unavailable in any other bladder-and-shell tube design. I haven't tried their standing platform models, so have no input on how they compare with the heavy and ungainly Scadden design.

    If I were you, I'd consider building a 'custom' boat by buying an Outcast Ferrari-series frame (with or without a standing platform and rear deck, as you prefer) and then mating it with a pair of 10' Maxxon dual-chamber, bladderless tubes. The Maxxon tubes are a couple of light-years better than any of the bladder-and-shell designs but at about the same cost. Finish it off with a set of Cataract 7-1/2' Mini-Mag oars and you'll have a kick-ass boat for about the same price as the out-of-the-box boats by any of the makers you mentioned.

  13. Kent provides a very good, non-biased review of the three makers and I agree with pretty much every thing he says. I'll second the comment about Maxxon tubes being far better than any cloth shell and bladder tubes.
  14. What makes the Maxxon tubes better or far superior to the others?
  15. Like float tubes, most consumer pontoon tubes use a two-piece design featuring a vinyl or PVC bladder zipped inside a thin shell of coated nylon or PVC. Lightweight and inexpensive to manufacture, this design is effective for stillwater or casual river use, making it practical and affordable for most consumers.

    So-called bladderless tubes use designs, materials and assembly technology like that found in rafts (think NRS, Maravilla, etc.), Watermasters, or serious whitewater catarafts (like those from Aire). Bladderless tubes are made from very heavy PVC material with RF sealed seams, reinforced at either end and typically with a laminated 'rub strip' on the tops to minimize abrasion by frame shift, and 'skid plates' on the bottom to prevent damage when dragged across rocks or gravel. Air is pumped directly into each tube or chamber, eliminating the need for an inner bladder.

    Sizes 10' and longer are typically made with an inner bulkhead across the middle of the tube, dividing it into two chambers, fore and aft, with separate valves for each chamber. Dual chamber tubes provide an extra margin of safety in case one chamber fails or is breached by a rock or limb.

    Bladderless tubes are neither lightweight or cheap, but are definitely the best tubes available. If I was gonna spend several days floating down a river, fishing and camping along the way, bladderless tubes are the only ones I'd consider.

  16. What Kent said (forgot the "t" in his name in my earlier post). He is usually right on when it comes to product evaluation etc. and explains it from a material and processing point of veiw. I'll follow up with a practical and common sense point of view.

    Take a look at the whitewater industry (Sotar, Maravia, NRS etc.). None of the leading pontoon makers use a bladder system with a zipper shell. Aire used to in their most economical pontoons. Not sure anymore. Think about zippers and all the things that can go wrong with them. They break, get debris in causing difficult zipping etc, you overinflate which can cause stretching on the zippers. The high quality bladderless pontoons are much more resistant to changes in temperature and altitude although you still need to be careful.

    Years ago when Scadden first came out and was doing the outdoor shows and selling pontoon boats rather than his new U-boat design, he offered bladderless and zippered boats. The bladderless boats were substantially more, say in the $500 to $600 range more. That is because they are better boats because the material is better and cost more to make. There is a reason why all the economical pontoon boats sold at the big box stores are in the hundreds of dollars and regularly go through changes every few years where as the high quality whitewater pontoons are sometimes in the thousands of dollars and bascially remain unchanged year after year. The materials and design are much better.

    Recently I sold some tubes to Jeff Bandy, fellow WFF. He posted about it on the main forum. One comment he shared with me was his experience with the bladder and shell pontoons he had before and the fact that the valve opening was often difficult to find and air up because it somtimes became diffucult to line up both valve openings. The valves in Maxxon tubes are better and can be replaced if needed. Not sure about the cloth shell and bladder pontoons.

    Another issue is the bladder can become scrunched or squished at the tips inside the outer shell thereby not fully inflating and causing you to pull them out of the cover to take out the blockage.

    There is a market for low and high quality boats just like everything else.
  17. Great comments, BDD. I am totally for bladderless for all these reasons. Less worrisome and much easier. And now, with the Scadden boats, you can be frameless as well. It's the future and the way to go (IMO). It's basically what Watermaster and Water Strider have been doing successfully for years. Now, if we didn't have to worry about other bladders when out in the lake...
  18. Three of the best pontoon makers out there, so here is my breakdown Outcast under 1200 are all Asian made now,
    The standing platform is smaller on the IR models than the Scadden, big issue to me, the bigger the better.

    Outcast IR 9
    Inflated Size: 54" x 9'
    Tube Diameter: 16"
    Fabric: 600 PVC/1200 PVC
    Material Weight: 28/31 oz/sq.yd.
    AireCell Material: Vinyl
    Seam Construction: Welded
    Warranty: 5
    Valve Type: 2-Summit
    Weight: 69 lbs.
    Load Capacity: 400 lbs.
    Frame: 6-pc aluminum
    Anchor System: Included
    Motor Mount: Included
    Oar Type: 7' 2-piece

    Bucks Bag The Bronco Extreme series
    18” diameter pontoons that are rotary-welded with a rugged 22oz.
    PVCenamel coated polyester cover and a 100% polyurethane bladder.
    The stainless steel frame
    padded seat, padded armrests and
    a roomy “Seaboard” cargo deck for coolers and extra gear.
    The standard anchor system features our patented
    Line-Lock for easy anchor release and retrieval. 7’ aluminum
    breakdown oars, bronze oar-locks
    Weight Capcity = 375lbs.
    Inflated size = 9' (108") Long x 57" Wide
    Shipping size = 52" x 24" x 10"
    Shipping Weight = 55lbs.

    Dave Scadden
    Length: 9'
    Width: 58"
    Weight: 64 lbs.
    Capacity: 600 lbs.
    Pontoon Diameter: 15"
    Frame: X7 Aqua-Lok XL
    Anchor System: Thru the frame Frame
    Material: Alcoa 6061 T6 Aluminum Frame
    Finish: Hammerite powdercoat Pontoons: Finest whitewater grade material in the world
    Bladders: Pure domestic urethane
    Valves: Halkey Roberts
    Pockets: IQ system
    Oars: Dave Scadden Custom Aluminum
    Oar Locks: Naval bronze
    Oar Rights: Standard
    Seats: Custom padded
    Whitewater rating: Class IV
    Warranty: 15 years
    Made in the U.S.A.

    I Know why I went with a Scadden ;-)
  19. Sorry guys, but Aire catarafts are and always have been bladdered tubes. However, comparing a cheap, PVC bladdered, sewn PVC shelled-tube (most cheap pontoon boats) with an Aire cataraft tube that has a urethane bladder and welded PVC shell is comparing apples and oranges. Their high-end Outcast PAC tubes are made just like the Aire tubes; the cheaper models are not.
  20. Outcast and Bucks bags are both sold through pro-shops!
    If you have a problem take it back to the shop and they will deal with it.
    With all of the comments about customer service in regards to Scadden boats, that would persuade me to deal with my local fly shop.
    I have an Outcast that I bought from a local fly shop 8yrs ago the bladder was pinched from a factory defect. The fly shop made one call and a new bladder was at his shop in less than a week. Outcast told me to keep the defective bladder. I repaired it and now have a spare. AND the shop owner loaned me his personal boat until mine was repaired.
    Try that with mail order.
    Just sayin'.

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