Please consider attending this...

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by orangeradish, Jan 5, 2014.

  1. That is an excellent question to ask the WDFW staff. Get an answer and share with us. Sounds like a good thing to know.

    This gives info on why NF and Green were selected. EDIT: proposal increases Summer plants in SF. Also the Coweeman gets expanded regs to improve public access, and it is still stocked with Hatchery winter runs (as of 2012 anyway).
    Andrew Lawrence likes this.
  3. The Coweeman, IMO, is a poor candidate because it seriously lacks needed habitat for spawning and has been a chemical filter for city sewer, farm drainage and runoff for decades. There's a reason the entire lower half looks like a slough--it is. There's also a good reason that despite being relatively untouched it still doesn't have a decent run of fish.

    I used to teach canoeing lessons on the Coweeman. There's a pipe near Tam'oshanter park that I witnessed dumping raw sewage into the river countless times (I'm talking toilet paper and shit--no joke). Trips upriver would require a lot of dodging cows standing in the middle of the river. It's not a healthy drainage.
    John Hicks and Chris Johnson like this.
  4. Since almost all of our SW Washington Columbia River tributaries run through commercial timber company land (that has been logged for over a century), I don't think we have any healthy drainages in the lower Columbia.
  5. Jason,
    I don't mean to pick on you, particularly since by stating this, you appear to be aware that this is an issue, but one doesn't have to stray from this forum to see that many fly fishermen don't feel they need to find common ground or include other user groups. They are "right" and therefore shouldn't have to compromise or explain their views to "ignorant gear fishermen". Unfortunately, not a lot gets done in this type of atmosphere. Not overly productive at least...
    There is blame on both sides for this.
  6. I remember people dumping human bodies in the green river too.
  7. I couldn't agree more Anil, I have seen first hand how some fly fishermen treat someone gear fishing even if they are doing everything right. It's no wonder that fly fishermen are viewed as elitists by so many others.
  8. I usually have a gear rod with me when I'm out swinging. I've run in to plenty of fly guys who don't approve of that.
  9. The habitat certainly has been degraded by logging, but habitat restoration, improved road practices and reduced harvest (trees are gone) are combining to create increasing amounts of viable spawning opportunities. In the free for all format last night, it was impossible to get across that the gene bank program has to be located in a drainage that has sufficient room for the populations to expand. The Coweeman watershed simply can't support enough animals to provide anything but a token gene pool. The Toutle/Green offers much more present and potential habitat, making it the logical choice for this "crazy wild fish experiment" to succeed.

    Those who are promoting the other alternatives have to ignore this logic since they are unwilling to make a sacrifice for the future.

    This afternoon I did speak with an enforcement officer I know about having a presence at meetings like this , and hopefully future meetings can be kept more orderly.

    By the way, skysoldier, your avatar is rushing his casts, and has snapped off his fly.

  10. Anil, I don't think you're picking on me at all. We have some differing opinions on some things, but I have a huge amount of respect for your views. I'm glad you took the time to post in this thread.
    I actually agree with you. For every "elitist fly guy" comment, there is usually a "bait chucker" comment going back the other way. When steelhead fishing, I have a gear rod in my hand at least half the time, so I get tired of that whole song and dance too. I feel that my beliefs are correct based on science. The guys who disagree with me think theirs are correct. It seems that their views are based on culture and history. How and where they were born and raised. I spent some time after the meeting shaking hands and talking to those guys. They are as passionate about what they believe as I am, and every one of them seemed like a decent dude. If I dismissed their views outright, I'd be a disrespectful prick. The only chance I have of ever changing anyone's mind is through respect and understanding.
    Anil and triploidjunkie like this.
  11. The gear vs. fly game has been around for a long time. Nothing new here. Back in the day on the Skagit some of the gear crowd would seek out fly guys to harass. I have had many a gear guy in a sled run up to within ten feet of me while I was fishing and just stare hoping I would start something. It goes both ways. Recently, say in the last ten years or so things have gotten better but there is still some petty shit that goes on mostly coming from the older sled jockeys. Personally I try to be polite to everyone I meet on the river except for eagle gawkers in kayaks; biggest assholes on the water.
    triploidjunkie and Anil like this.
  12. I've stopped fishing some of my favorite slots on the Skykomish due to asshole sled jockeys that roll over your water and try to start stuff. I actually chucked a rock at one guide who had clients in the boat once. Shit is just uncalled for.
  13. Same shit happens to me. I threw a rock a two punks on jet skis once. They thought it would be fun to come in and spin brodies around me and tangle up in my flyline. They called the sheriff, but ended up getting a ticket for harassing me! When I saw the fuzz show up, I thought I was going to jail!!!
    One other episode(out of many) occurred on Rufus. Some drunk kids were out harassing fishermen. I witnessed them do it to several boats, not just being annoying, but downright dangerous. As they grew closer I rowed my pontoon out onto a very shallow shelf. Just as I predicted, the drunk assholes came after me. They spotted the ankle deep water I was in about thirty yards from me, barely avoiding wrecking themselves and the boat.
    I've only ever had one slight altercation with a fly fisherman, and that was a guide being a dick. Or more accurately, trying to make his client be dick and cast on top of me. The client refused, the guide got irritated. I thanked the client for his manners, called the guide a douche, and gave the spot to the client.
    Jeff Dodd likes this.
  14. The thing is you don't know if they were "gear chuckers' or not and it doesn't matter. We all want to catch fish, plain and simple. The State has made a commitment to have wild Steelhead gene banks in every DPS, they have to choose which rivers and they picked these. the guys who fish those rivers feel like something is being taken from them ( I'm assuming here), and many are pissed. I don't know much about those rivers, but I know 2 of the people who were on the committee that chose them. I take them at their word that these are the best choice. A little empathy goes a long way and is something that seems to be in short supply these days. I tip my hat to you Jason for hanging around and talking to people, we all want more fish, we may have differing opinions on how that should happen, but fighting with each other will get us no where.
    Jeff Dodd and Dan Page like this.
  15. The best fisherman I've ever met fishes gear more than flies. Ever since realizing this I find it ignorant as fuck to disregard someone based solely on their method of fishing.
  16. Solid work Jason!

    As much as our human side expands it, the issue is about the wild fish surviving only. Hopefully the ESA laws keep that as a higher priority than the masses of "opportunity" anglers.

    Truly I think these issues are best fought on forums like iFish where it can be talked out over time. Guys like Rob and Jeff get down and dirty on a day basis to provide the science to guys who may want the right thing but don't really know what that is.

    While I agree that each fight is important, even having this proposal get this far is a victory. While opportunity guys may outnumber CnR guys by 4-1 the general public favors saving wild animals 1000-1.

    One thing I do see is that opportunity guys seem to think NFS and other conservation groups just attack hatcheries. Maybe we need to spend more time advertising the other things we do to protect the fish.
    orangeradish likes this.
  17. Hey Jason,
    Thank you very much for your efforts. No Tango Pallabras, Mi Amigo. See you soon. IPA on me.
    Cheers Bro',

    Thank all of you who went and wishes on your river time.
    orangeradish likes this.
  18. The never ending battle thanks Evan !! Anil thanks for your words of wisdom !! I believe the war is over but bless you for fighting on !!!!!
  19. What can I say Don, you just can't teach some people ;)

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