Please help me leave the gear rod at home

Discussion in 'Spey Clave' started by Cruik, Sep 5, 2013.

  1. macSuibhne Member

    Posts: 41
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    I don't care whether you fish gear or not...bottom line I wasn't singling out gear fishermen I was speaking to the OP--who asked how he could leave the gear behind, in case you missed that part..

    But since I seem to have struck a nerve, I will say this, I've been fishing for steelhead in Oregon for a lot of years. When I say "sporting" it isn't something to do with what kind of hat you wear or even how many fish you take home, when you go home. It's about how you leave the river when you do go home.

    Did you leave 100 feet of monofilament dangling in the current or strung from one submerged rock to the next? Did you leave several ounces of lead in the river? Or how about those beer cans that were so heavy to pack in but so much more heavy when emptied that you couldn't possibly find the strengthto pack them out. What about the car seat you set out on the bank so that you wouldn't have to stand up too long.

    How many people did you low hole because you don't need, or believe in moving through? How long did you dog-in-the-manger that slot down in Ferry canyon at one in the afternoon just because there was a car parked up on the road?

    No, not every gear fisherman does this.And more and more flyfishermen are equally unthinking. But I've been dangerously tangled in mono too many times to want to remember. I've seen the car seats and the beer cans--just last week on one of the prettiest rivers in the state.

    But it wasn't the prettiest river in the state because that river is the North Umpqua and at least the pretty part is fly fishing only. And I've never in over 30 years (I've been flyfishing for over 50) seen any of that on the NU.

    The biggest problem with gear fishermen is that they are out for themselves (and again, when flyfishermen equally so misapprehend the reason to fish they are no better). Once they get done fishing no one else can experience the river the way they did without thinking about Dogpatch.

    When you leave the river worse than you found it...even accidentally...but especially if you never really give it a second thought, "sporting" doesn't even come into it. It's a malaprop.

    Just my 2 cents...
  2. David Dalan 69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E

    Posts: 1,740
    Walla Walla, WA
    Ratings: +626 / 0
    All things being equal, I have to say that the level of sporting chance seems inversely tied to fish abundance. Example: rivers exist where one could watch fishermen bring double digit steelhead to hand on a fly rod, float and split shot free, in a single day.

    If I am interpreting it correctly, the quoted prose seems to imply fly fishing is a method that is inherently less effective at actually catching fish. I agree that there are additional elements of interest beyond catching (casting, fly tying, etc.), but those are not required to make the sport "sporting."

    I'll engage my soapbox for a moment.

    Many of the more "tweedy" (I do not use this as an insult, only a descriptor) anglers seem to be under the impression that fly fishing comes from a long heritage of not catching much. They would not say this directly, but a hint of "expected defeat" accompanies the description(s) they provide for their chosen sport. Astonishing numbers and sizes of trout (Browns and Sea Trout) and Atlantic Salmon were noted in early angler fishing records, at the dawn of modern fly fishing. To be sure the most aristocratic crowd practicing fly fishing did often wax poetic about the ancillary elements of fly fishing. But they were doing so while catching large numbers of fish. And killing/eating them.

    I would offer that the modern, low expectations of fly fishing has more to do with the large increase in participants and relatively low abundance of quarry. When new anglers are mixed with anadromous fishes and nothing else is add...pretty much nothing happens most of the time.

    Off my soapbox. I did not intent to offend, and sorry for the hijack.

    BUT, in then end, Jerry hit the nail on the head. It's your leisure time, and you should feel enabled to with it what you will. The only meaningful judge of your angling worthiness, lives in your head.
    Cruik and Jerry Daschofsky like this.
  3. David Dalan 69°19'15.35" N 18°44'22.74" E

    Posts: 1,740
    Walla Walla, WA
    Ratings: +626 / 0
    Mac,

    I see where you were getting at now. Feel free to ignore my last reply, I think I was arguing a view you were not expressing.

    FWIW, I think there are a hell of a lot of very considerate gear anglers out there. Particularly in terms of cleaning up their trash, being polite and helpful, etc.
    shotgunner and Jerry Daschofsky like this.
  4. macSuibhne Member

    Posts: 41
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    I agree with you. The real problem is that we don't see them.

    And think about it--that's the way it should be.

    They left the river in at least as good a shape as they found it. They left the river such that others could get as much enjoyment out of it as they did. That's precisely why the NU is the prettiest river in Oregon.

    Think too about common perceptions--flyfishermen are thought of as not catching as many fish as those using other methods. Often this is ascribed to some form of elitism or haughty self-righteous indifference...and there is some of that. But the real issue is that for most of us it is a choice we make to be gentle to those thing we love--the river and the fish.

    And gear or bait fishermen...how are they perceived? In general. Esp. when a fisherman gets tangled in that mono. Or walks down a steep and tangled trail to a seemingly secluded run and finds a car seat on the bank. You have to know it took a hell of a lot of effort to haul that sucker in there. To what purpose? What's the motive? It ain't concern for the fish or the environment or any sense of harmony with either the river...much less the better angels of our natures. Give me one reason/motive that isn't fundamentally selfish and thoughtless.
  5. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,581
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +579 / 5
    LOL. God you had me laughing. Was that supposed to be serious? God I hope not.
  6. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,581
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +579 / 5
    Try fishing some other rivers then the NU and you may. I know TONS of them. And a LOT of us who fish gear (and I fish fly just about equally) take out MORE then we brought with us. If you sequester yourself to fly only, how do you expect to see an awesome gear angler? You won't. Just sayin'
  7. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,581
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +579 / 5
    Please explain this "we" you're talking about
  8. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,581
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +579 / 5
    Back on topic. If you can find one, since it sounds like small rivers, get yourself a 7 or 8 wt 10' rod. But a heavy long enough belly line to roll cast and do one handed spey casts. Basically roll casting. I have both a 7 AND an 8wt in 10' (both RPL's) that I use for this. You can get best of both worlds. Now, will you get the effect of a skagit? No. But will work great. Been tempted to find the proper grain window and have a custom line cut for the rod. Try skagit casting my 10'ers. You don't need the switch, but they're not much longer anyways.

    The deer creek series has some nice rods for what you're looking for.
  9. macSuibhne Member

    Posts: 41
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    How's this for serious...

    I fish because I love to; because I love the environs where trout are found, which are invariably beautiful, and hate the environs where crowds of people are found, which are invariably ugly; because all of the television commercials, cocktail parties, and assorted social posturing I thus escape; because, in a world where most men seem to spend their lives doing things they hate, my fishing is at once an endless source of delight and an act of small rebellion; because trout do not lie or cheat and cannot be bought or bribed or impressed by power, but respond only to quietude and humility and endless patience; because I suspect that men are going along this way for the last time, and I for one don't want to waste the trip; because mercifully there are no telephones on trout waters; because only in the woods can I find solitude without loneliness; because bourbon out of an old tin cup always tastes better out there; because one day maybe I will catch a mermaid; and, finally, not because I regard fishing as being so terribly important but because I suspect that so many of the other concerns of men are equally unimportant- and not nearly so much fun. Robert Travers

    Currently I only fish the Desshutes, the North Santiam, the Rogue, the NU, the Sandy...and any other river that has steelhead and a quiet run not packed shoulder to shoulder by folks flinging $9.00 a pound food grade prawns.

    I edit the river ruthlessly and still see this kind of thing. If you don't it's because you've got "flies in your eyes."
  10. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,581
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +579 / 5
    Again, you got me laughing again. Your ignorance makes me laugh.
  11. macSuibhne Member

    Posts: 41
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    Ignorance? How long have you been flyfishing? How long have you been fishing with any rig?

    As long as you've been trolling internet forums?
  12. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,581
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +579 / 5
    LOL. Trolling? I don't need to give my "credentials". I've probably done more for the sport then you have. Especially when it comes to "flyfishing". I'm far from a "troll" when it comes to this board. ;)

    BTW, I don't hide behind a moniker. Easy to find me.
    Nick Clayton likes this.
  13. cmann886 Active Member

    Posts: 377
    Richland Wa
    Ratings: +41 / 0
    drop dave kaiserman a note he uses an ambush line very effectively with good success on single handed rod. I have not had near the success that he has with an 8wt. winston B-IIx ( I use a 10' 7 wt. B-IIx) I also have a 5 wt switch and a 7 wt. switch---I wouldn't use the 7 wt on small steams on the dry side-It is just too long for the tight quarters----but it works well on the lower Yakima, the 5wt is great in the Yakima canyon and Naches sized rivers---but even it can be a bit long for streams that are only 20-30 fee wide.
    Jerry Daschofsky likes this.
  14. Jerry Daschofsky Moderator

    Posts: 7,581
    Graham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +579 / 5
    That's basically what I do with my single handers. He just makes it look so much easier.
  15. Jason Rolfe Wanderer

    Posts: 1,176
    the beach
    Ratings: +371 / 0

    Jesus, Pat, I think Wulff is going to have to start paying you considering how hard you push that line!
    Pat Lat likes this.
  16. Pat Lat Mad Flyentist

    Posts: 860
    Des Moines
    Ratings: +596 / 0
    its a pretty fun line, just trying to share the joy. But yes they should pay me.
  17. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,205
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +455 / 0
    Small stream flyfishing for steelhead is the task eh?

    Sounds like the OP likes fishing gear. If that is the case then fish gear. Have fun and have a beer ready for me if we meet at a parking spot. My recomendation would be to either fish gear or dry lines w/o lead for summer fish.
    If your gonna nymph, just save yourself the hassle and fish gear. Seems like you are good at it. It's the same damn thing. I gotta believe that it's more fun since lobbying weight on a flyrod is about as much fun as a bleeding hemerhoid.
    If you wanna catch steelhead on a fly from your small streams toss a skater/wet on a floater and swing for the fences. Dryline steelhead are awesome. Save some money that you would have spent on new lines etc. to gear fish on your flyrod and purchase some gas.
    Gas?....Yes gas. The most important factor in flyfishing for steelhead is going where there are fish. Wild summer run fish are the most likely to take a fly so use that gas money and go where there are wild summer run steelhead.
    I'm headed there in a couple weeks. I'll be flyfishing. Unfortunately the river(s) will be good sized although a man can always go higher in any system.
    This is my opinion and in no way is meant to discredit those with other opinions or who fish differently. Afterall, the man asked.

    Go Red Sox,
    cds
  18. Cruik Active Member

    Posts: 434
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +120 / 0
    Charles, I can definitely see where you're coming from with your recommendation to save money and spend it on gas. I think a lot of people in the fly fishing community spend too much time and effort on gear and other goodies, when that time and money are better spent getting up at 4 in the morning and driving 3 hours to hit the water you really want to, instead of fishing the SF snoq. with a Sage One. As for nymphing (at least with an indicator), I really don't plan on doing it. I generally like to take both my gear and fly rod on a trip and switch off, depending on the water. I fish the gear rod more, I'd say because I find the single hand casting, especially with an 8 weight, to be tiresome and limiting (because of the back-cast). I'm mainly trying to find a better tool for when I find those big-bouldered tailouts, or other spots that would be criminal not to swing. That Wulff line is tempting. To be honest, I've never fitted a line meant for roll-casting. I'm wondering if that wouldn't just be best.
  19. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,205
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +455 / 0
    11 1/2 spey/ switch correctly lined is the deal then. Corectly lined.

    Oh and buy the right line.

    Go Sox,
    cds
  20. shotgunner Anywhere ~ Anytime

    Posts: 476
    45th Parallel NW Michigan
    Ratings: +18 / 1
    First [and by far most economical] thing to try is overlining your rod by one or two sizes. No joke. Medium action =9wt. Fast actioned rod, go for the 10wt. When working tight this does wonders.. plus allows you to 'boss' heavy fly or any weight much easier. Beg, borrow, or steal one.. worry about purchase later. WF or DT not a concern for initial test run/s. Fish this way a few times things will be coming into focus for an informed choice.

    Study a couple basic single hand spey casts. Pretty simple, unbelievably handy, and they'll work with any line on short casts.

    Best of luck