Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Nick Clayton, Aug 24, 2009.
Cue the banjo music out there in Tahuya
Who wants to go fish this shit hot beach I know of in Tahuya. No beach access so we'll get a flotilla together.
Let's launch at Twonah just before high tide, the trick is to anchor 9' from the beach at high water. Should be some good action!
"My family owns property on both sides of the canal. 180ft of water front in Union and another house past Tahuya with water front as well. In both cases the property line goes down to extreme low tide. In Union this means 5 acre's of tide flats, because so much sediment has been washed down by the Skokomish River. Every neighbor I know on both sides of Hood Canal go by extreme low tide for their property.These are private beaches period. We don't pay property taxes (which are expensive on the water) for people to come pick oysters and clams at there own leisure and lounge around on our property. Nor do I like to pick up other people's trash and dog crap. Speaking of crap, I also don't need to deal with some arrogant fly fisher who thinks he/she has the right to be there! My Grandfather bought the properties back in the early fifties so he and the family could have their own beach. Once someone trespasses and continues other's always follow and then the mess starts happening. It annoys me when people think they have the right to trespass on others property. I don't care what kind of BS you come up with justifying "why you have the right" to beaches that are private. Try running that crap by some of the old families who live out on the water in Tahuya. See how far that will get ya. Better yet try throwing some disrespect by dropping anchor 10ft off the property."
Well, this is your chance to set a good example of being neighborly. Post a sign that says " "No Gear Fisherman, No Clam Diggers, No Oyster Pickers Allowed-Fly Fisherman Welcome".
Remember, you are only a temporary visitor here on the good earth. You really don't own the good earth in my book. I think most fly fisherman are no slobs.
Funny Milt with the banjo thing. That's probably fits the bill better than what I was thinking. IE Silver Spooned Prick.
When I said 10 feet from the property- I was referring to the "property", not the property line. I'll include gear fisherman in there as well dryflylarry. Kim Yea I can be a big prick! But there is no silver spoon in this mouth.
If you want to be an arrogant ass about someones private property don't be surprised if you get the boot in the ass...
so one of you folks with deep pockets and oodles of patience, go anchor up on mark's folks property, have them call the sheriff, get arrested, go to court and clear this up for the rest of us. otherwise, find some other place to fish!
Damn we are all such a fine tempered group. No wonder we can't all get our shit together to move in one direction for some conservation. What a waste of energy. I've used my humble craft to cruise the Too-Hoo-Yaah beaches before on some SRC explorations when salmon season was closed. I've see a few guns in backyards. I've seen some heavy gear chucking from those private beaches and salmon landed and bonked out of season. Some protect their private property because other pricks mess it up. Some protect private property because they think they can do whatever they want. This thread has become a great illustration of two sides hell bent on confrontation. Great.
Okay, okay! Enough already!!!!! Haven't we beaten this dead horse into its grave. I am a beach owner and many of you have fished on MY beach this summer as the Pink Salmon have returned. Mumbles and several others have visited my family home and have seen and fished this beach. During the past month, literally hundreds of fishermen have bonked Pinks on MY beach. I say nothing other than respect the beach. Don't litter, don't climb my bulkhead, and don't piss on my tidelands. My family owns them and they go out a long way as many of you can attest. Property owners pay for the right to own and protect their interests as they choose. In some cases they post them as no trespassing. Others like myself allow access but as soon as I find the beach disrespected, I WILL CLOSE IT and PROTECT IT. The law is ambiguous at best because owners have different limits of ownwership. Do as you will. Tempt the owners and you will lose the access that many of you are too thick headed to see. I'll say it again; Ask. Be respectful. Leave a fish for the owner once in a while. Pick up any litter you see and deposit it in a proper place. It doesn't take much to make a friend and it takes even less to make an enemy. For now, you are welcome to fish MY beach. How you get there is up to you but if the other owners close their beach, I'll be bonking fish by myself for a long time in the future, unless, of course, I invite you to walk down the 157 steps to the beach. If you owned a cornfield would you want pheasant hunter trashing your property just because people have hunted there in the past? :beathead: :beathead: :beathead:
I posted this in jest as I don't think I've more rude post on WFF. He deserves to be messed with. With the rapidly lowering oxygen levels in Hood Canal I don't think the poster has much to worry about from fly fishers trespassing. From what I've observed moutain biking and motorcycling around Tahuya there's a lot more criminal activity that would have my attention.
Having said that, property rights on the waterfront are the same as they are upland. I don't understand how that's hard to understand. The only variables are how far out one's property goes (mean high water, mean low water, etc) and that portion of the property that is underwater given the tide state.
Unless you fish while carrying plat maps and title reports for the beach you're on then you'd do well to introduce yourself to the owners and ask permission.
I don't understand all the anger Mark.... You must of
had issues in the past with people on your beach, right?
As a waterfront owner I to am protective of my beach, as
anyone is that owns any land. As long as they don't take my
oysters and clams its ok to walk through. However I always
ask "who are you and where do you live in the area". Since there
is no public access anywhere near we almost never get strangers
on our beach.
I on the other hand, have Public Access on both sides of my property due to DP State Park and DP County park. While I ask people, if they are friendly, they may remain. People mlove to walk between the parks on a nice level, sandy beach.
I've basically concluded that I'll just stick to wading from public beaches unless I get a personal invite from a beach owner, since confrontation is the last thing I'm looking for when I head out fishing.
I spend much more time whitewater kayaking and wading rivers than I ever will fishing from beaches, and I'm curious how folks that live on beaches feel about wading rivers. Would you, or do you, support interpretations of the law that grant folks that live along rivers property claims that extend to the river bottom?
I'm not trying to call you out, just wondering how you think about these things.
My last comment on this: You folks need to read about the Public Trust Doctrine (see the link below), and specifically how it relates to private tidelands. When the state sold the tidelands to private owners, it did not explicitly eliminate or clarify certain rights of the public for access and fishing along the shoreline held by the public under the Public Trust Doctrine. This is the crux of the issue, and private ownership does not necessarily convey a right to restrict public access or even public shellfishing on those shorelines like it does on upland property. The issue will need to be settled by the WA Supreme Court, and the decision could go a variety of directions.
2. Interests Potentially Protected in Washington
a. Right of Public to Walk and/or Harvest shellfish on Privately Owned Tidelands
The Washington Supreme Court has not had an opportunity to consider whether the public
has a right to walk across privately owned tidelands, or whether the public may dig clams on
those tidelands. One commentator notes that nearly all states recognize that the public trust
doctrine provides the public a right to pass and repass over public trust tidelands. While
states' courts have issued opinions which generally lend support to the public's right of
access, precious few have directly addressed the issue of whether the public has a right to walk across privately owned tidelands.
as a member of a family that owns some waterfront property i feel i should chime in here.
The majority of the public that happens upon our small beach is courteous, clean and respectful. The fact of the matter is though, it only takes one bad apple to ruin it for the rest of the people. Guys that cuss out the kids playing on the beach for interfering with his fishing, or the guys that come into shore from their boats and lets their dogs poop all over and do their business on our oyster beds.
The public trust doctrine is a very vague set of guidelines in this state as you can see from what Milt has posted. The way I look at it with my property is that if people want to pass through, that is fine. But when they start to set up camp on the beach and dig our clams, take our oysters(most of which we have paid to have planted) they are over the line.
If it isnt your property, or you dont have permission, stay off. be respectful, ask some homeowners if they have a problem with you fishing and if you are nice, throw them a salmon or two, they usually wont have a problem.
Are there any cases pending?
No cases pending that I'm aware of. I think people on all sides of the issue are afraid of the outcome if it goes all the way to the WA Supreme Court. Other states rulings have covered the entire range of possible outcomes. Only a matter of time before someone gets a load of buck shot in their butt. Then we'll get a WA ruling on the matter.
Milt hit it on the head. The downside for us recreational folks is that there are no water rights lobbying groups in Washington like there are in the majority of other states, so if and when the courts get involved, we stand to lose unless we can organize fast and furious (like our brothers did in Utah recently).
Yeah - seems like it'd be a mistake to force the issue unless there's an organized constituency ready to tilt the balance in favor of public access.
American Whitewater is the only group that I can think of off of the top of my head that also has a dog in this fight at the moment, but perhaps there are others out there.
Seems like it might be possible to secure access rights with something similar to a conservation easement, but where land owners exchange well defined access rights for a permanent tax concession, or sell the rights to a conservation group or the state for the same purposes.
Seems like that might be a useful mechanism for gradually acquiring access rights to some prime fishing/recreational waters even in the absence of a definitive settlement.
And this is why we can't have nice things
scenario: you decide your protected because of the Public Trust Doctrine. It's high tide your waste deep in the water. Because the house only has an 11ft setback your standing 16 ft in front of the house. You won't leave I call the Sheriff and report where you are and that I told you you were trespassing. Sheriff comes out an d most likely tell you leave or go to jail.
Yep all it takes is one bad apple- or a few poachers. Mix it in w/ trash, dog crap, boat owners coming in to take a piss on shore, hell you name it. My family and I have been taking care of the property and tide flats for a few generations now and take pride in that. That's how the majority of waterfront property owners I'm familiar with on hood canal feel.
As far as a river is concerned- if the property owner owns the river bottom., then it's trespassing. It's the same idea as the tide flats. I don't trespass on other's land. I may not like it but I sure as hell respect it.