Problems with trailing loops

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by golfman65, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    I find when I put the extra mojo into a cast I will get great distance and a freaking tangled mess of a line...I try and keep the forward haul lighter and that helps but my main question is with the line itself..

    When your using an outbound etc. do you cut off the end loop and tie your leader on or do you make your own leader up?

    I'm wondering if you would use the 30lb, 20lb etc. method and if using a floating line how long is your leader?
     
  2. ibn

    ibn Moderator Staff Member

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    Tailing loop usually comes from trying to overpower the cast. Instead of lightening up on your haul, try relaxing your cast and increasing the haul speed.

    I do cut off the loop and nailknot my leader right to my line. Mostly because I just don't like loop2loop connections. I don't think it would be causing tailing loops though.
     
  3. salt dog

    salt dog card shark

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    iagree

    Another problem which arises when over powering your forward cast is that it screws up your timing for initiating your haul; even if only a fraction of a second, it's enough to dip your rod tip at the wrong time, which forms the tailing loop. Try delaying the initiation of your forward haul on the line one split second so that you are not pulling your rod tip downward to early.

    I like to change up leaders a lot, so I use the factory loop on the floating line, and attach the line loop to the loop on the leader. On the O-B intermediate, I'm using approx 4ft of tippet directly to the loop, and connect via loop2loop. If I was throwig a lot of heavy clousers for Ocean Coho I might see some line hinging, and might re-think a loop2loop and go with a nailknotted leader connection instead. But with resident Coho's, SRC and Pinks, the flies are usually not that large.

    After 1.5 seasons with the Outbound, the loop weld did come apart on me one morning on a 12" SeaRun, so you need to keep an eye on the factory loops, or put your own on. BTW, great service with RIO dealers, no questions asked I got a new RIO replacement line. :thumb:
     
  4. Bonefish Jack

    Bonefish Jack Strictly FF

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  5. Jacob Peterson

    Jacob Peterson Member

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    ONe sugestion i got is use a powerful back cast and a lighter forward cast. This helps the rod lod better and if done right can generate optimum line speed. Hope this helps
     
  6. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    I think these loop to loop connections suck. On occassion I try it after letting myself get lazy. It causes nothing but problems. If I were a "beginner" fly fisher learning to fly fish, it would make me want to quit! Learn to tie your gear with SMOOTH connections. Use nailknots or whatever is a smooth connection for you. It will save you MISERY. I put on a new leader the other day and tried it once again with a loop connection. I was cussing.... and I am a good caster after 49 years of throwing this stuff around. You will get your mojo back!!!!
     
  7. kelvin

    kelvin Active Member

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    watch your back cast
     
  8. Dale Dennis

    Dale Dennis Formally Double-D

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    Trailing loops can also be caused by breaking the wrist in the forward cast especially during the power stroke. Your casting arm should be an extension of the rod. In a basic cast your loop and rod tip should follow a paralell line with the water.
     
  9. Pez Gallo

    Pez Gallo On the hunt for grandes

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    I have a hard time trusting the factory loops so I always cut them off and reconnect. However, with marlin, tuna, big roosters etc I've learned to dislike nail knots as a leader connection. I form a loop in the fly line, secure with a series of nail knots and loop to loop my butt section. I have never seen this system fail. Though obviously it's probably over kill for sea runs.

    The only loop to loop in my leader is at the fly line connection. From there I like to step down the leader with "slim beauty" knots. I can't say i've been troubled by hinging at the loop to loop. Perhaps because I'm using fairly stiff butt section.
     
  10. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    Excellent replies and I'm betting I'm dipping some on the forward haul...Hell I know that's what i'm doing when I do it...Thinking the delay might help and focusing on keeping my tip on plane...

    Many thanks...
     
  11. Rick Todd

    Rick Todd Active Member

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    The Rejeff video is a really good explanation of tailing loops and three solutions. I've watched George Cook, both Rajeffs, and Gary Borger in presentations, but this video illustrates the problem and solution so well!
     
  12. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Hmmm....interesting! Agreed that your rod tip and line should follow a line paralell with the water (or grass?) but my instructors all agree that "breaking the wrist on the backcast will invariably wreck the backcast and consequently the forward cast as well." You cannot screw up a backcast and not screw up the forward cast...I just said that, sheeeesh!

    In my case I think I tend to "haul" too soon on the forward cast (before the leader & fly straighten out) AND put too much ooomph into it as well...."tailing loops and wind knots" aplenty are the result.

    Also I notice - when not thinking too much about other things - that I usually will "break my wrist" and thereby lower the rod-tip when attempting to "drift" the rod on the backcast! Boy, does that ever screw things up!!!

    Actually, I make so many casting mistakes it's somewhat of a miracle that I can even get a line out over 20 feet!! :beathead: :(

    Jc:beer1:
     
  13. Matthew Gulbranson

    Matthew Gulbranson Resident Swinger

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    That video was great! I am definitely going to try the 'paintbrush' next time! And that cast he does at the end is SICK!!
     
  14. Reefmeup

    Reefmeup New Member

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    Standing in waist deep water. I do a backcast but let it fall to the water. Than I start my forward cast and haul. I get amazing distance using the water tension to load the rod. The key is still in the backcast. It must be strait and no slack. I know this is not conventional casting but if your having trouble getting out there without tangles this works well for me.
     
  15. thewaker

    thewaker Tight line takes ain't no fakes!!

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    No one has really said anything about rod drift on the back cast. When casting for distance with power properly applied, rod drift on the back cast is essential. It is important to let the line straighten out behind you before applying a haul and forward stroke. A lot of tailing loop problems come from not just applying to much power but applying to much power to a line that has not come fully straight behind the caster.


    It should go something like this:

    Back cast,
    stop rod motion,
    drift rod backwards to straighten line and increase haul length
    haul on forward stroke
    finish with a forward flick

    If done properly tight loops and max distance can be achieved.


    Mark
     
  16. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    HUH?!!! :eek:
     
  17. jcnewbie

    jcnewbie Member

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    Uhhh....must be facing the beach and casting backwards....I guess?:D
     
  18. salt dog

    salt dog card shark

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    I believe Reefmeup was referring to water-loading the rod.
     
  19. Jim Speaker

    Jim Speaker Active Member

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    Just watching that video has already helped me. Focusing on the acceleration towards the end of each stroke of the cast... beautiful... thanks for a great link Bonefish Jack. I was having trouble with dipping my rod tip, screwing up the arc, when powering it - I knew that's what was happening but couldn't figure out why - and this video showed me what I needed to focus on to correct it. :beer2:
     
  20. Greg Arcara

    Greg Arcara Member

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    I appreciate this link too, I am definitely having huge issues w/ tailing loops (even after watching the video). Still working on it hehe. Thanks!
     

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