Problems with trailing loops

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by golfman65, Apr 1, 2009.

  1. Just watched the video one more time and I find it interesting that on the cast he fires at the end of the video, it was a rather Belgian cast with the rod tip angled out more on the back cast than when bringing it over the top. The backcast loop in fact curled low and was brought back over the top on load if I'm not mistaken.

    Thoughts from some of our finer casters here on Belgian and whether it is counter-productive when shooting? I know I love this style in bad dubya, but just wonder if in calm conditions it really is better to bring it over the top, which is my current observation.

  2. I think that ultimately a straight rod tip path with a proper application of power leads to nice tight loops no matter what plane the rod is in. Elliptical casting is really one of the great examples of that principle as the rod is taken in and out of two different casting planes (sidearm and overhead) and yet, if the rod tip path is straight, and power is applied with good timing you have loops tighter than a mosquito's ass on a rainbarrell. Throw in some good snappy hauling (reaching and ripping) without disrupting your straight rod tip path and relaxed comfortable stroke (short cast, short pause, short stroke, long cast long pause, long stroke) and you have flyline shooting out at good to great distances Tight lines and good casting! Coach

    Take away convex rod tip paths, or dipping and applying improper power and tailing loops go away. One great way to lean how not to throw tailing loops is by purposely learning how to throw them on command. Begin the forward or backward stroke and immediately stop the rod at the very beginning of the stroke and watch the tailing loop form. This is applying power at the wrong time in a very easy to see format. There are many fine casters here and I am just throwing out some things that may make sense or help. Coach
  3. Well put you are absolutely correct Coach, as long as the casting plane is straight it matters not at what angle and adding the haul will amplify the power. I would recommend to any new fly caster to practice the double haul and shoot more and false cast less, of course this would depend on what type of presentation you are looking for (as in the dry fly). Before the Spey some of the best casters I have seen are seasoned steelheaders, their not called the fish of a thousand casts for nothing.
  4. Coach speaks big medicine. Attaboy.
  5. Pretty simple concept. As salt dog noted, it's just a water load. The drag/friction holds the line and loads the rod on the forward cast. I believe it Joan Wulff used to do casting demonstrations where she let the line lay on the carpet behind her, and execute a nice forward cast ('carpet' load). I know of a person (names escapes me right now) who used to compete in those Best in the West casting contests, where those guys routinely cast 105' or better with 5 weights, and he would do the carpet load for his casts.
  6. :rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:...You been takin' lessons from the "Master of Vernacular", Wadin' Boot, Coach? Very funny description....mosquito's ass on a rainbarrell, hahaha!! Thanks! :thumb::beer2:

  7. Good stuff Coach, thanks for the excellent answer. I was kinda hoping that would turn out to be the case since I am a fan of the belgian or, as you better termed it, elliptical casting stroke... it deals nicely with dubya and just feels good to cast that way. Glad it's not hurting my efforts to throw my whole line. The salt has at last created a focus for me on distance which is a great thing as, after a good number of years with fly rod, I'm finally motivated to work out the kinks that evolved from self-instruction. Thanks again.
  8. Great idea Coach. Great way to get an understanding of the fundamentals of the dreaded tailing loop. The reason tailing loops are so frustrating to fix is that it is usually caused by a mix of both improper acceleration and dipping the rod tip. I know I fought with it constantly for months. Then I was fortunate to have had Don Simonson, Master CCI, watch me cast for less than one minute and the problem was fixed. Duh. :beathead: Do not underestimate the value of casting lessons.
  9. I don't think that is a very practical thing to do in everyday fly fishing. I think one just needs to learn how to cast efficiently with a few false casts. If you "have" to load your rod in that manner, I can't say you would be considered an accomplished caster. I do understand the concept. :D
  10. I use a water load when I'm out... sometimes... but somehow I always feel like I'm kinda cheating - it's similar to the feeling of trolling a fly (which I do, frequently). Somehow it just doesn't feel as much like fly fishing - but damned if I don't like to catch fish and do what it takes to get my fly where it needs to be. To me, anyways, there is just something much more complete when the fish is taken on a fly I tied by a cast that was, I dunno, maybe just a nice little rollcast pickup into a little belgian shot up onto that spot. Whatever gets er done, for damn sure, but maybe just in the best way ya can muster is my opinion.
  11. If you are water loading in front of you going into the back cast you are spooking every fish you might be looking for, particularly in skinny water. I have seen this many times where they are throwing to the bank after several slaps on the water in front of them they can't understand why they are getting no takers. I don't mind following someone while casting to a shoreline but when they begin loading the rod off the water where your targeting fish, just gives me goose bumps and I have to say something.
  12. Water-loading is not a substitute for learning how to aerialize line for a proper cast. It's just a technique that can be very proficient to use in the right circumstances. I use water loading most frequently when nymphing, casting upstream. If the goal is to maximize the time your fly is on the water fishing, and not in the air false casting, water-loading can sometimes eliminate all false casting.

    I have never seen anyone using water loading on a forward false cast, if you don't include roll casting or spey, where the anchoring of the fly by the water friction enables the forward cast.

    Water-loading is also a good learning technique. For anyone first learning fly casting it is a normal problem to fail to pause long enough for the line to straighten out on a back cast to load the rod. The result is a pile cast on their head. Changing tactics by having the novice back cast and let the line settle on the water surface before forward casting forces them to pause, and will allow them to at least get the fly out and over willing fish so that they might actually catch something. The encouragement of actually catching a trout is sometimes all that someone needs to stay at it long enough to catch on to the timing and feel of the back cast, and from there a smaller step to aerializing the cast. Everybody figures it out eventually.
  13. True that on the water-loading when nymphing a river - the lob cast is my friend in a good number of situations.

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