NFR Question about baiting for hunting

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kim McDonald, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    I'm not a hunter (although I am an avid consumer of the end results of hunts). I have a place in NCW which is considered prime mule deer habitat and a neighboring land owner between my place and USFS land. The neighbor and I have had several run ins during hunting season because he gives every Tom, Dick, and Harry permission (and the lock combo) to drive through my land (he has an easement) to hunt. So yesterday I watched his son drive up with a huge wood crate of apples and after the kid left, I went up to check on my suspicions, and indeed, the apples were left near a small stream and Aspen stand, perfect deer habitat. They are baiting for next weekend (opening weekend of the season).

    Now, I have no problems with hunting. And I understanding baiting for deer and elk is legal in Washington State.

    But it seems like cheating to me. Is it? In this case, because of how dry it's been and the fact this land owner also mowed then herbicided his fields, making food sources scarce, it is almost like throwing dynamite in a fish pond. But if it is the generally accepted method hunting deer, I'll stop being bugged by it.

    Is it?

    Below is a picture of the "apple stash."

    Many thanks!

    --Kim IMGP8370.JPG
  2. Citori Piscatorial Engineer

    Posts: 1,200
    Federal Way, WA
    Ratings: +116 / 0
    I did a quick check. It's legal, even on state land. Legal? yes. Ethical...?

    You might want to post the location/coordinates so some others on the board could benefit... just sayin'
  3. Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    Posts: 1,627
    The Salt
    Ratings: +753 / 0
    what a waste of apples
  4. TD Active Member

    Posts: 737
    North End
    Ratings: +112 / 0
    Baiting is a method used. Many would argue that it is cheating. Anyone that has done it can attest that it isn't as simple and productive as many would think. Many people assume you throw a pile of apples out there every couple of days for a week or 2 and then on opening day you go out and shoot an animal. There are way too many factors involved for it to be that simple and it isn't that effective.

    What I have found is that the more people truely know and experience first hand by doing, the more difficult it is to take a firm stance on either side of these debates. Eventually, it boils down to what provides the individual with whatever experience they are after when they step into the field. After awhile you start to realize that the beads vs. swinging, nymphing vs. dry flies, baiting vs. not, modern firearms vs. muzzleloaders, muzzleloaders vs. archery, compond bows vs. traditional, sleds vs. drifting, wading vs. boats, etc, etc, etc, etc, all boil down to what provides each person with the experience and feeling of self satisfaction that they are searching for in the field.
    Bothellfisher likes this.
  5. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Haha. It's bad enough that the adjacent landowner essentially tells everyone in the county that it's ok to access the USFS land through his land, so sorry, no coordinates!

    I had done my research and knew it was legal in Washington (not many other states, however), but am really wondering about the ethical or sense of fair chase in it. Like I said, it feels like dynamite in a fish pond.

    I was thinking of taking my dogs up there and letting them, well, er, use the apples as a fire hydrant thinking the scent might scare off the deer...!

    Bill Aubrey likes this.
  6. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Yes, TD, I would agree that it's as complicated as the debates in our fly fishing world...and my guess is baiting like that isn't as effective as some would think, although this is the second time I've seen this guy (or hid son) do it, so they must be able to get some buck out of the deal.

  7. gbeeman Active Member

    Posts: 343
    Kennewick WA
    Ratings: +35 / 0
    Not something I would do or feel good about knowing someone who does.

  8. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    When I saw them taking the load of apples, I first thought baiting for deer was illegal in this state, but it isn't. So I don't think there is much I can do about it. It's on his land, not federal or state...

  9. Bill Aubrey Active Member

    Posts: 939
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +165 / 0
    You might be able to do something about his giving out the combo. How far does his easement extend? Can he let everybody in the state cross your land. He has an easement for ingress and egress, not for a highway. You might want to check with a lawyer. I am definitely not anti-hunting but to me, what he is doing is not hunting, it is killing. That being the case, I might serenade the "hunters" with some really nice heavy metal. Deer love it. And let the dogs do their thing overtime.
  10. Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    Posts: 790
    Gig Harbor, Washington
    Ratings: +186 / 0
    Is it ethical? Depends on the person I guess. The state opens deer season for a week or two to reduce the numbers of deer to maintain a healthy population. You are aloud one deer a year here in washington ( unless you are lucky and draw a secand deer tag for a certain area) so what difference does it make how you harvest that deer so long as it is legal. If the state does not think the deer population can handle someone taking one deer a year then they should change some of their regulations.
    Bothellfisher likes this.
  11. jeff bandy Make my day

    Posts: 2,231
    Edmonds, Wa.
    Ratings: +276 / 1
    Jonathan, ethically speaking. Please tell me the difference between this and snagging for salmon.
    I don't have a problem harvesting from the wild. But I think it should be sporting.
    Bill Aubrey likes this.
  12. bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

    Posts: 2,262
    Ratings: +675 / 0
    I guess spotlighting deer should be legal as long as you only shoot one deer,or how about as long as you only take your daily limit of salmon you should be able to use a gillnet
    Bill Aubrey and Ron McNeal like this.
  13. jeff bandy Make my day

    Posts: 2,231
    Edmonds, Wa.
    Ratings: +276 / 1
    How about dynamite C&R?
    Bill Aubrey and Ron McNeal like this.
  14. Jonathan Tachell Active Member

    Posts: 790
    Gig Harbor, Washington
    Ratings: +186 / 0
    If you read my post I did not say I was in favor of baiting deer. Only stated that it should be up to the individual on how they would like to harvest their one deer as long at it is LEGAL to do so. Jeff and bennysbuddy it is illegal for the recreational fisherman to snag fish, use dynamite or gillnet fish. That is the difference! Baiting deer is LEGAL, whether you or I agree with it is our own choice or opinion. It is up to each hunter on whether or not that they feel it is ethical or the way they would like to hunt. Personally I don't bait deer but if someone wants to im not going to tell them they are a dirt bag for performing a legal act in order to try and harvest a deer.
    JesseCFowl and Bothellfisher like this.
  15. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Adding to this debate the neighbor is not exactly "harvesting" deer for dinner. He is quite affluent. Does big game hunts in Montana and Alaska. My guess is, unless he is an illusionist, he doesn't "need" this deer to feed his family.

    Don't know if that makes any difference....but for some reason it sort of bugs me. It isn't pay to play, it's I own an orchard (among other things), I own lots of property that also happen to be prime deer why does he need to bait the deer, when they are quite prevalent all over his land?

  16. Nick Clayton Active Member

    Posts: 2,842
    Ratings: +1,116 / 4
    I can understand being bothered by it, and having the opinion that its not right....but it doesn't sound like any laws are being broken. If you decide you feel strongly enough about it maybe work towards getting the law changed instead of taking it into your own hands. After all, I wouldn't appreciate my neighbor having his dogs piss all over my tying desk because he thinks what I do for fun is ethically wrong.
    JesseCFowl likes this.
  17. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    For what it's worth, my dogs didn't go up to the apple stash.

  18. ribka Active Member

    Posts: 1,419
    E WA
    Ratings: +164 / 0
    I don't bait deer but is it sporting to hunt the edge of an alfalfa field or next to an apple orchard?

    Maybe he mowed/ sprayed his fields to get rid of noxious weeds. Do you think he purposefully killed all food sources on his land to improve hunting?

    Fishing during a hatch? Taking advantage of an animals' feeding patterns. Is it fair to target trout when they are most vulnerable?

    Legal and as long as he does not waste meat no issues. So affluent1% landowners like you Kim do not eat meat? Seems an urban dweller trying to impose his belief system on other legal sportsman. ( I am shocked).

    Another swinging, bead use thread.

    Kim what is your carbon footprint when you drive to your property from Seattle? Are you aware your carbon emitting vehicle is destroying our planet according to Noble Prize winner/ fondler of women Al Gore? Can start another thread.

    Not the way I hunt but who am I to judge?
    PT likes this.
  19. greenwater Member

    Posts: 70
    Western, WA
    Ratings: +7 / 0
    I would check on this also.

    Are you sure he's not selling the access?
  20. The Duke Been around

    Posts: 256
    Des Moines, WA
    Ratings: +67 / 0
    I was wondering the same thing. Why else dump the bait? Unless it's to furthur their own hunting prowess. If they are potentially creating financial gains from a mutually used (and owned by you) access point, wouldn't that create a legal issue?