NFR Question about baiting for hunting

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kim McDonald, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

    Posts: 2,572
    Mount Vernon, WA
    Ratings: +105 / 0
  2. Daryle Holmstrom retiredfishak

    Posts: 2,572
    Mount Vernon, WA
    Ratings: +105 / 0
    It's a lot of hard work, I wouldn't do it for deer, my dad put out salt licks every year, never did see a deer at any of them, if you're worried about venison harvested just go pee on the apples should last a couple of days, LOL
  3. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    I'll be there this weekend, although not on Saturday morning, but certainly Sunday. And can ask the guys who head up the driveway who they are and how they know the owner. My hunch is, though, that he is doing it for himself and/or his son who is in his early 20s. Last year he allowed his nephew, who is in his mid-30s up there and the nephew had a fit because he ran into guys who'd already killed two bucks. The guys were on USFS land, not this neighbor (who thinks he owns the whole mountain), but this nephew went nuts and even stopped at my place to read me the riot act thinking I let them up through my land....so my guess is they want to make sure they get their buck before anyone else.
  4. ribka Active Member

    Posts: 1,419
    E WA
    Ratings: +164 / 0
    That is why I archery hunt. Too many idiots in the woods here in WA during modern firearms.

    Probably the biggest threat to mule deer populations is development ( people building homes) in their wintering areas -not a pile of apples.

    Food for thought
  5. ribka Active Member

    Posts: 1,419
    E WA
    Ratings: +164 / 0

    Oh my god.
  6. PT Physhicist

    Posts: 3,544
    Edmonds, WA
    Ratings: +716 / 2
    Why do people nymph rather than swing, bait a crab pot, chum for kokanee, use game cameras, tree stands, etc?


    Ummmmmmm....... Good guess.
  7. Charles Sullivan dreaming through the come down

    Posts: 2,288
    bellingham wa
    Ratings: +541 / 0
    Never thought much of hunting over bait for deer. It is legal here though so let it be.

    Go Sox,
    cds
  8. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    big difference. Catch limits for salmon in washington take into account that 5% of sport anglers catch 95% of all the fish caught..or thereabouts. The rest are just frothing water. If snagging was legal, the catch limits per person would have to go down.

    So the guy is feeding deer that at least partially range on his land and harvesting them within the limits of the law? You guys crack me up. For some, hunting isn't a sport, It's a way to put healthy food on the table. I hear no one complaining about cattle farmers doing the exact same thing this guy is doing on a massive scale. And don't give me the "he can afford to buy meat..he's wealthy" bullshit. You can't find fresh wild harvested mule deer in the stores. I'd take a deer steak over that fatty chemical tasting garbage you find in the safeway anyday.
  9. Olive bugger Active Member

    Posts: 2,380
    Woodinville, WA
    Ratings: +408 / 0
    I gave up hunting years ago, with a healthy desire to not get shot.
    So many hunters, so little game.

    Another approach to the issue is the subject of apples left on the ground. Now I know that there are a lot of apples left to rot on the ground. But this is a good place for apple maggot breeding. The folks that deal in such matters might be interested in the practice of dumping that many apples in one place.

    While I personally do not condone such practice, I realize that the
    soul purpose of some folks is to kill an animal for bragging rights.
    Some folks make a living selling the opportunity to other folks.
    I guess all the ethical morality in the world will not change that.
    Those $$$s are just too tempting to pass up.
  10. rymo Member

    Posts: 54
    Issaquah, WA
    Ratings: +6 / 0
    I almost posted something similar on the Stilly gill net issue, but chose to enjoy some popcorn instead :)

    I agree with those who have said that it's up to them as long as no laws are being broken (same as treaty fishing). We all feel right about our own ethical standards, and we dismiss what we disagree with as flawed/unethical/immoral/etc. I have hunted deer, birds & fish with various methods, all of which give me a SIGNIFICANTLY unfair advantage over my adversary. We tend to feel better about whatever we are hunting by passing it off as "sporting", but is it really? We are humans with (normally) big brains trying to find & capture an animal with a tiny brain and a bunch of natural instincts. Since we know what those instincts are, we know exactly what to do to find said animal. It doesn't matter if you are using a fly rod & fly, a $3,000 rifle setup or a bow - we still win! If you pretend you are in the civil war and use a muzzle loader, you are cheating just a little less, but still have a massive advantage :)

    We're all out hunting & fishing for recreation - most of us don't NEED the meat, so we're just killing (or catching & releasing) for fun. It's not up to me to decide who's method of fun us acceptable, as long as they aren't breaking any laws or endangering me or somebody else. I'm personally not a fan of fishing from a boat with down-riggers waiting for a salmon to pop my line off, but I'm not going to claim that people who enjoy that style of fishing are unethical. I don't agree with the apple dumping, but to others' points - a deer will be tagged either way, so the impact is the same.
  11. Trustfunder Active Member

    Posts: 169
    rock creek
    Ratings: +71 / 0
    Call me old school or an Indian but this is a far cry from hunting, it shows a lack of respect to the animal being hunted. If one can't match knowledge, experience and persistence to a game animal using fair chase methods, then IMO they don't deserve it.

    What's even more bothersome is this person is teaching the 20yr old absolutely nothing about hunting.... it's similar to the fast food mentality, I want it here, like this and right now.

    This is why people can't or don't understand those that do hunt, what a disgrace.
    Bill Aubrey likes this.
  12. Nick Clayton Active Member

    Posts: 2,849
    Ratings: +1,126 / 4
    So would you prefer they drive to Safeway and purchase meat that has been shown just as little respect in the slaughter house?

    All this talk of sport, ethics, respect....bottom line animals die and people eat them. As long as laws are followed correctly, what difference does it make how they die? You think a bullet to the chest feels better to a deer if its delivered in what some people consider a more sporting fashion?



  13. Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

    Posts: 2,051
    Washington
    Ratings: +53 / 0
    Don't confuse harvesting with hunting. Baiting deer for harvest is not hunting. It's more akin to trapping and I would say much more respectfull to the animal than cramming 200 head of cattle in a pen and splitting their skulls open with a hammer. When's the last time you had a hamburger? When's the last time you ate a piece of chicken? How about a pork chop? Ham sandwich? I'll guarentee those animals didn't go out while eating a pile of fresh fruit by a well placed round after living a wild life.

    Quit trying to turn hunting/harvesting/trapping into a romance novel with a later to be announced chick flick in disquise starring some walking hollywood mangina. It's bad enough you guys had to do it to flyfishing. There's no reason to bust a guys balls for trying to legally fill his freezer before winter. The only thing that's even remotly messed up about the picture is he wasted about 5 gallons worth of perfectly good hard cider apples. He should've used unschucked feed corn. It works better anyway and there isn't a chance that the deer will be laid up in the brush with a hangover on opening day.
    Bothellfisher, Nick Clayton and rymo like this.
  14. xdog Active Member

    Posts: 249
    Washington, Alaska and Louisiana
    Ratings: +40 / 0

    Baiting for big game in Washington State is a legal activity. If you believe it is the equivalent to "dynamite in a fish pond" (an illegal act) you are simply exhibiting your ignorance.

    A few points of fact for your education on the topic since your so fired up about the legalities of hunting.

    It is illegal to harass or obstruct a legal hunt in the State of Washington, which arguably you have already or are considering doing so.
    http://www.huntwashingtonstate.com/HWS/washingtonhuntinglaws.htm

    Trespass is also Illegal which apparently you have admitted to and further posted evidence thereof in this thread.

    Further you presume very much about hunting which admittedly and obviously you know little about. You have impled that this person doesn't need to hunt because he affluent? Seriously? You further imply that because he hunts multiple states you assume the meat is unused or wasted? Do you have any basis of fact or they big assumptions on you behalf. You might consider the fact that some of us actually enjoy hunting and not merely because we have to, much like the fact few if any of us "have" to fish. I can assure you that I, me, my family of one has no problem consuming 3-5 big animals in addition to many waterfowl and a occasional fish annually.

    You said you do not oppose hunting and question the ethics and legality of your neighbor, while your ranting, ethics and legality are really the topics in question here. So now let me ask you is it you or neighbor that is the "illusionist"?
  15. xdog Active Member

    Posts: 249
    Washington, Alaska and Louisiana
    Ratings: +40 / 0

    Ignorance is why people don't understand hunting.

    I assume you have successfully baited for big game before and can attest to its lack of challenge? I assume further that you have successfully hunted other more ethically acceptable methods and can elaborate as to how one method is morally acceptable over the other?

    Some of you might remind yourselves that fishing is essentially hunting for fish. Even if you release every fish you catch there will be some mortality in addition to playing a fish to a point of trauma and exhaustion prior to release, not because we have to but simply rather because we enjoy it.

    I certainly don't expect nor should every fisherman be a hunter but I do have hopes and expectations that fisherman should have a closer remedial understanding and respect for thier brotherhood with hunters.
    Bothellfisher likes this.
  16. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    Sorry to burst your bubble xdog, but I have an easement to go on his land (negotiated because he made a HUGE mistake when he subdivided and forgot to get an easement then threatened to sue me if he didn't get one...). And again, sorry to deflate your response, but I think I said what he was doing was legal, I know that. What I was curious about is whether it seemed similar to dynamite in a fish pond, given the food scarcity issues this year for deer. So my friend, before you get cranky, read my first post. Just because baiting for deer is legal doesn't mean it should be. There are many states where it isn't so finding similarities in a discussion is, frankly, legitimate.

    AND, by the way, I am not assuming anything about this gentleman. He has told me specifically he does not eat the game he hunts in Montana and Alaska and he does NOT hunt here. His son, his relatives, and his "accounts" as he calls them, do. His son told me he also doesn't eat the meat. It's about trophies for them. Just repeating what he told me.

    And I have no intent on "harassing" as you called it anyone. This gentlemen's friends have left carcasses in my driveway, .22 shells near my barn, shot through my house when it was in construction (despite the fact the easement specifically says no shooting nor arrows nor...on my property), have driven ATVs all over my fields. And to all of that, all I have ever done has emailed him to ask him to restrain his friends etc.

    Harassment? Hmmmmmm. Me thinks he and his friends are harassing me, but that is a whole other story.

    Thanks for your input.
  17. Trustfunder Active Member

    Posts: 169
    rock creek
    Ratings: +71 / 0
    Point taken, Dead is Dead. However the reference to cows, pigs, turkeys, chickens in Safeway compared to baiting a deer there is a difference.

    One rancher/farmer raised those animals from infancy to market,to make a profit, provide a service feeding folks, the main thing here is he owned those animals. Do I have a right to go up to him and determine how that animal dies? NO. Just like I wouldn't go over to your house and tell you how to mow your lawn.

    Now that deer is a "public resource" owned by the state and the people of the state. Like anything public everyone has an opinion and I just expressed mine.
  18. Trustfunder Active Member

    Posts: 169
    rock creek
    Ratings: +71 / 0
    I assume you have successfully baited for big game before and can attest to its lack of challenge? I assume further that you have successfully hunted other more ethically acceptable methods and can elaborate as to how one method is morally acceptable over the other?

    There is no ethically acceptable methods in killing, but there is in hunting and this isn't it.

    Why bait a deer with apples when you can hunt an orchard? That's the way I was taught, there's a lot more to hunting than horns and meat for those who care to learn or pass it on. That's the brotherhood you speak of.
  19. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0
    I don't think any form of hunting lacks challenge. But challenge isn't the issue here. Nor am I an ethicist. I am merely asking the question of others, if they feel, as I do, that baiting is not appropriate. As I mentioned, many states, states that have huge populations of hunters, have banned baiting for deer. Why?
  20. Kim McDonald member

    Posts: 289
    Seattle, WA
    Ratings: +138 / 0