NFR Question about baiting for hunting

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kim McDonald, Oct 8, 2012.

  1. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    You aren't bursting my bubble or deflating my response but thank you for the out reach of concern.

    You failed to see my point that baiting for deer is a legal pursuable activity while "dynamiting fish" clearly is not and as such the two are in no way similar.

    If my response has given you the impression that I am cranky it is likely in part that the chief reason baiting isn't legal in many states (including Washington for Bear) it is because a small group of anti hunters and non hunters the vast majority of which have never have not, nor ever will spend a single day hunting in thier lives that no little or no knowledge about wildlife. People that havent donated a single dollar or moment of thier life to benefit wildlife or conservation. People that dont have the slightest clue of what hunting is or is not. These are the well meaning folks come up with misaligned, pious ideas of what "they" think is right or wrong regarding hunting and decide its prudent to impose those ideas on hunters and wildlife managers by supporting and getting laws enacted that make them feel warm and fuzzy about how well Bambi sleeps at night.

    You sound a lot like one of those people......
     
  2. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Same reason it's illegal to snag salmon in washington. 5% of the hunters take 95% of the deer killed every season..or so. They would have to reduce bag limits if baiting was allowed in those states. (ever tried to only kill 1/4 of a deer and release the rest?) Washington has more deer than habitat. Land we have...wild food for deer we don't. We need to kill x amount of deer every year. Where I grew up hunting "the same herd my entire hunting life", it was illegal to bait for a period of time before the season started. It didn't really matter tho since we planted feed corn and grasses to keep them out of the vegetable gardens anyway and deer are creatures of habit. They'll pound the same trails untill you give them a reason(scent) not to. We knew every individual deer out of that herd by sight, even down to what doe mothered them. Sometimes you could tell who the buck was based on it's spread or even one bucks line always had a weird akward looking gate that made them fast as racehorses. Maybe that experience is why I look at it from more of a harvesting/self management perspective and not as an ethical one. We only took what we could without damaging the herd that my family had been hunting for well over 250 years...Even if we had the tags to do so.

    Either way, it sounds like your neighbor has a douchebag delux for a son and he needs a serious steel toe boot to the balls to get him in line. That's what would've happend to me or my bros as kids if we wasted an animal like that. Unfortunatly, that is frowned upon in todays vagi-society so you're going to have to deal with a dickhead neighbor earning his well deserved adjective. I'd plant a field of rye/wheat and feed corn on my property surrounded by a 60' wall of ridiculous thick cover. Sounds extreme but those assholes aren't going to see another deer if they are already fat and laid up in the thick stuff.
     
  3. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    Wow, talk about assumptions. I used to work for a hunting/wildlife organization which did a lot of work in preserving and protecting habitat for hunters just like you and me in my younger days...you're making a lot of assumptions here, xdog, from accusing me I am about to harass a hunter to telling me I know nothing about wildlife and game management.

    And if you look at the list I posted, xdog, a majority of states ban baiting. Including Idaho, which I would classify as a very pro-hunting state. Most states ban baiting during hunting season....

    Again, thanks for your contribution to this discussion.

    Kim
     
  4. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Why?

    Please tell us why baiting for deer should be illegal. Tell wildlife managers and sportsmen that have devoted their education, careers, money and free time studying deer and wildlife and are directly responsible for the fact that there are any deer left at all exactly why baiting is wrong, obviously we don't know what you do.

    :)
     
  5. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Hey good for you I will be sure to send you an award regarding to contribution to wildlife!

    Regarding assumptions, you might read again what I posted. I never said you were harassing anyone I did however do you the favor of enlightening you some of the ideas you suggested may in fact violate Washington law. I also posted that "you sound a lot like one of those people" that don't know of what they speak, I stand by that.
     
  6. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    It's not illegal to screw somebody elses wife, it comes down to what your ethics and morals are & not all people have the same opinion thats why we have these debates!!!!!
     
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  7. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    I think baiting trains wildlife to access habitat that they might not normally access. It's like leaving dog kibble on the back porch and wondering why you have a raccoon problem.

    I am not a big fan of deer, to be frank. As far as I am concerned they are tick vectors.

    That said, baiting is training deer to access habitat they normally would not during hunting season. If you want to hunt deer, great. Take a hike, a walk, scout where they are, find them, kill them, eat them. I am happy. but luring them closer to you, training them to come closer, to come where they normally would not....and then shooting them; why don't you just go raise cattle or pigs?

    When I fly fish I study the river. I watch the hatch. I try to figure out where the fish are, not try to lure them to where I want them to be so I can catch them. There is a huge difference in my opinion. I am trying to be part of their habitat rather than making them part of mine. If that sounds too whoo-whoo for you, sorry!

    Kim
     
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  8. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Take another look at your photo. He basically dumped a pile of deer food on top a pile of wild grown deer food. Was there a deer trail beaten there, honestly? If there wasn't I'd be suprised.
     
  9. Kim McDonald

    Kim McDonald member

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    No, it's a human track. There is an irrigation pipe near there that takes water from a small stream down the hill to a ranch and a home. Lots of human traffic up there to fix the PVC pipe (it's not my water right but a rancher's down the road that I let cross my land and use my pedestrian easement to fix the pipe).

    But there are deer all over and game trails every where.

    It is a prolific deer area. Which is another reason I wonder about the baiting. It's prolific. It's like the Methow Valley, deer every where. What is the need to bait? if you just huck it up the hills, you'll get your buck.

    Kim
     
  10. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Well now I have to credit you for some ideas and reasoning here, even if they are flawed and I disagree with them, they are at least more substantial than I just don't think it's right and other states do not allow.

    Also for what it's worth the additional information you posted regarding your neighbor certainly paints him in the light of being a Jack Hole. If it were me he and I would have had a man to man discussion at a minimum and or I would bring the law into it if I had evidence he was responsible for the infractions of which you speak. Your neighbor seriously told he doesn't eat his kills but only hunts for the trophy? He doesn't care for and gift the meat? He left full carcass on your property? Wanton waste of game meat is a criminal offense if you have supportive evidence please call the Washington State Police.

    Oddly I am a super big fan of deer. They are beautiful, graceful and incredibly intuitive animals that also happen to be both tasty and healthful to eat even if they are "tick vectors".

    :)
     
  11. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    Are you saying hunting over bait is merely killing with no hunt prowess or skill involved? How so? Do you honestly think you can just dump a pile of apples anywhere wait for a few minutes and tip over a deer? Have you ever seen or hunted over a pile of apples like that in a harvested or even a harvested orchard? Have you ever hunted over bait? Have you even successfully hunted at all? You sound a lot like some one that has not.

    Hunter success rates for Mule Deer in Washington state run at about 25% on the average including antler less deer which I would guess to comprise about half of that total. So in other words even with all the evil advantages that baiting affords most Muley hunters have about a 75 % chance of failing to harvest any deer and even higher odds yet against them coming home with a buck. That's a much more realistic view if the effectiveness of using bait for deer and the odds of finding success on the simple advice of 'Take a hike,.....scout.....kill them, eat them".

    There is very much more to hunting than horns and meat, that I think we can all agree on.

    :)
     
  12. xdog

    xdog Active Member

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    I agree.

    Save for the fact the main objectors of baiting clearly do not hunt and should not be entitled to judge or impose their personal morals regarding the matter of which they obviously have no knowledge or expertise.

    You know I never have hunted deer over bait but I have wanted to the past few seasons, now I feel quite compelled to do so. If I haven't baited until this point it's simply because I have limited time and I know the success of the hunt will likely be determined like many things in life the amount if work one puts into it.

    Scouting and finding right trails will take at least several days if not a week. I will study topo and satellite maps. I will determine the prevailing winds and approach routes, erect several blinds to met various wind and weather conditions. I will clean or enhance the trails and shooting lanes on a primary and secondary stands. I will have to find and or buy bait. I will put out trail cameras that will likely verify most bait visitations occur only during the hours of darkness. I will check and matinence the cameras at least twice weekly. I will likely have a trespasser or poacher find one or more of my bait stations and or steal the cameras and or blinds, I will then restart as necessary. I will watch for signs of the rut and try to expend most of my time in the stands during the rut while the bucks are most vunerable. I will spend much time considering where and when my best chances will likely come. I will try to think and react like a deer. I will practice calling. I will read and research and consider generate new ideas and method. I will network with friends and neighbors for deer intel. I will likely have to be absent once or twice and rely on favors and friends to rebait and watch things for me. I will wash and de scent my clothes and body. I will spend many hours tuning and shooting the bow. I will figure on at least a dozen morning and or evening hunts to even see a buck that I might get clear shot at and know it likely will require even more hunts to actually become successful. It might be a little more work than most if you think and some hunters might even get lucky and score on a lot less work than I prescribe. I however don't count on luck and additionally my work has to date has garnered a much higher than average success rate on big game. All the work and preparation are a enjoyable component of the hunt in addition to being out there for for hours on end, waiting, hoping and enjoying the ride along the way.

    That's my reality of what baiting deer is like and if you can find the hunt I describe as unethical or the equivilant of dynamiting fish well then I doubt I can never convince you otherwise and I think we can agree that we disagree.

    :)
     

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