Questions about leader for intermediate lines

Discussion in 'Stillwater' started by Chedster, Feb 7, 2014.

  1. Chedster

    Chedster Member

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    So over the last year Ive become interested in lake fishing, especially throwing int. lines with wooly buggers etc. I bought a 9' tapered fluorocarbon leader and looped that on to my intermediate line. My question for you stillwater guys is: do I need to buy fancy tapered leaders or can I just loop on a length of straight leader and call it good? What's your preferred setup?
     
  2. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    I'm not an outstanding caster and need all the help I can get getting my leader to turn over at the end of a long cast. My current solution is a10' airflo polyleader matched to the sink rate of my line then add 3-5' of straight fluoro tippet. Casts well and has held up for a couple years. Previously I used tapered 9' mono leaders with 5' or so of fluoro tippet.
     
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  3. miyawaki

    miyawaki Active Member

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    9 feet is too long. Imagine your flyline sinking and leaving your fly up and behind or worse, your flyline sinking and your weighted fly sinking leaving a load of slack between the fly and line and you wondering why you're missing fish. Go with short four or five feet of straight leader material.

    Leland.
     
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  4. Steve Kokita

    Steve Kokita FISHON206

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    Hi Chedster, like Leland said. Is your intermediate line clear? Mine is so I use a real short leader as the fly line is basically invisible too. On my type three, five and six sink lines I also use short leaders to keep the fly down in the zone with the fly line. Now, get your dry line and go chironomiding!
     
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  5. Topstoy

    Topstoy Member

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    You're not worried about the presentation so much for this type of fishing. It's not like you are presenting a dry fly with it rolling out. Save your 9 foot tapered leader for your dry fly action and just put on about 2 -3 ft of tippit connected to your fly line. You want to get your fly down and don't need it lagging behind. Good luck to you.
     
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  6. Ed Call

    Ed Call Mumbling Moderator Staff Member

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    Short with no taper. You are presenting flashy flappy meat, let is splash down loud and proud, let it sink as if a bird just dropped a baitfish then start your twitchy goodness return. The Bam Slam will be upon you soon!
     
  7. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

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    I prefer using a tapered leader, especially if there's a loop on the end of the fly line. But, it doesn't need to be long OR fluoro. I'll sometimes use older (used) 9' leaders that have been trimmed to the 6' range or start with a 7.5' leader. I do use 3' or so of fluro tippet sized a touch strong.
     
  8. Wayne Kohan

    Wayne Kohan fish-ician

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    Casting is a lot more pleasant with unweighted flies, and with sinking lines, there is no need to weight your fly, at least sometimes. But as stated, if you have an unweighted, or even a buoyant fly, it will ride up higher in the water column than the line. And the longer the leader, the higher up it will ride. A 4-5 foot piece of fluoro seems about right for me with my sinking lines on a lake, or sinking lines on a swing for steel.

    Wayne
     
  9. Drifter

    Drifter Active Member

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    I cut off all my front loops on the fly lines, Can't stand the hinge effect! They may be good for spey fishing changing lines or tips but for trout fishing I don't use them.

    I leave the loop in back for a large loop around reel connection to the backing so all I have to do is loop the large backing loop around the reel to change lines.
     
  10. IveofIone

    IveofIone Active Member

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    I tend to not agree with the short leader theory, particularly in clear water. I normally use 7.5' tapered leaders with 3'-5' of flouro attached. I have all sink lines from intermediate to Deep7 and don't worry much about the fly moving up in the water column. In fact, I encourage it by trying to kick my boat in a series of S turns rather than just straight ahead. The line drops on the inside turns and rises on the outside moves with fish often taking as the line transitions from one direction to another. I have been very successful with this method for decades now and since I'm good at it won't be changing my tactics anytime soon.

    But if you can find happiness and lots of fish with a shorter leader just do it. It has to be simpler than what I'm doing, I just never seemed to make it work for me.

    Ive
     
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  11. Lue Taylor

    Lue Taylor Lue Taylor/dbfly

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    Hey Chedster I use to think that went you are dragging or stripping a fly leader size and length would not make a difference, until Steve and I was fishing in the same hole while he was hooking up almost on every cast and I was beating the shit out of the water spooking fish we both had on the same type fly except he was using short leader 4lb test fluoro and I 8 lb maxima as soon as I switch to 4lb immediately start to hook fish and work the same with chironomiding 6 & 7x over 4X Thanks Steve for showing me the way
     
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  12. Tim Lockhart

    Tim Lockhart Working late at The Office

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    Overall think shorter, then some of it depends on you. For most guys, especially if this is just one of several fly lines in your arsenal, a few feet of whatever will prove most effective for all the above reasons. I'm probably on the other end of the spectrum, using a very similar setup to David's. Save for dry flies, I only fish with one line, mostly presenting by cast/retrieve, and I strip fast. The longer leader accommodates all the casting, especially when target specific, as well as the fast retrieves with a weighted fly. "Longer" is a relative term here. I wouldn't go 9 ft plus tippet length either. 6' tapered with another 2' of tippet is perfect for my antics and I'd consider that on the long side for a sinker.

    For what it's worth, the fewer rods, reels, lines, leaders and flies I have on hand to choose from, the better my results have been. Same could be said for methods, I wouldn't be afraid to experiment with simplifying.
     
  13. Steve Kokita

    Steve Kokita FISHON206

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    Oh come on FF....remember the old saying " he who dies with the most fly fishing toys wins!!" I am a vintage fly tackle junkie...but at least I'll admit it! You probably think I look like a bass fisher on the water as I always have three rods strung up with different lines whether I'm in my toon or pram...but that's just me. But I agree, simple is best.---Steve
     
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  14. Don Freeman

    Don Freeman Free Man

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    Yup
     
  15. scottflycst

    scottflycst Active Member

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    I started making my own furled leaders a few years ago and discovered, because of their extra weight, they work well for sub-surface intermediate presentations. Most of my lake flies are water absorbent which adds to the straight line sinking and helps solve the fly-higher-than-flyline issue. I usually use a 4-5ft leader with 24-30"of tippet. The stretch of the furled leader seems to help if I find a sizeable trout sleeping with his mouth open!
     
  16. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    Polyleaders are available in several sink rates. I put an extra fast sinker on my type V and a clear intermediate on my camolux. Matching the sink rate of line to polyleader avoids any problems with fly sinking faster/slower than the line. Another nice feature is lack of memory in the leader. Like others have said, if short leaders of straight tippet work for you, cast on. But other options may be worth a try.
     
  17. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

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    TP - I have and often carry Polyleaders in various densities. I see some value in casting, particularly larger flies, and also value in turning a floating line into a sink tip on-stream, maybe to pull some streamers or get a nymph down. But I can't quite embrace why I'd put an intermediate Polyleader onto an intermediate line. Or, a fast sinking tip on a similar sinking line. What am I missing? I see no value add unless you're throwing really big/heavy stuff.
    Thanks
     
  18. troutpocket

    troutpocket Active Member

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    You already mentioned the primary benefit: turning over the leader on long casts on lakes. When I'm trying to bomb out casts with a bigger (#4-8) bunny leeches and buggers, I used to struggle to get everything to land straight. Polyleaders have corrected the problem. They also land with less disturbance than the fly line . . .which probably doesn't matter much when fishing a faster sinker but I like it when I'm pitching streamers right up against the bank. My overall leader length is 13-15' . . .keeps the line splashing down farther from shoreline cruisers.

    I switched over to polyleaders because the mono tapered leaders I was using would start to coil and kink after a few trips. Replacing them several times throughout the season got expensive. I was interested to see if a polyleader could become a semi-permanent tapered leader with only the tippet requiring regular replacement. I'm starting my second full year using the extra-fast sinking polyleader on my type V sinker and it's still looking good after catching a pile of fish. I just put the intermediate polyleader on my camolux in January and have only fished it one trip. I like it so far.
     
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  19. Mike Cline

    Mike Cline Fly Fishing Guerilla

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    I have been using a intermediate poly-leader on a camolux the last 2 seasons. Then add flouro-tippet to get the desired length depending on the size of fly, water depth etc. I have found this to be a very productive combination.
     
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  20. David Loy

    David Loy Senior Moment

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    I've found the polyleaders will coil as well, although they seem to relax some after a few casts. A straightener works well on my Mono leaders. Some care is necessary in the fine end (light and slow there). Some guys hate straighteners. I am not one. Stretching is not nearly as effective IMO.
    Celebrate the differences. Glad you're having success.
    Thanks TP

    Mike, an intermediate Polyleader can be pretty effective on a floater when fish are taking emergers just under the surface (lakes).
     
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