Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Jason Hoffman, Mar 7, 2014.
No, you are not sketchy Salmo!
I appreciate the leeway you have given this thread. It's an emotional topic for many, but the exchanges have been generally civil, educational and entertaining, as I have come to expect from this forum. It's not what I was looking for when I popped in last week to say hi, but there you go. Spring in the air - I am going to clean some guns. Cheers!
Sorry to hear about your voices causing you pain. I do what my Rice Krispies tell me. I don't always understand why they say what they do but they've never led me astray. Sometimes I carry, some times I don't; I just follow directions.
I see 7 pages on this topic wow you guys should find a hobby like Flyfishing & talking about the big one you lost
Kerry, you bring the silver, I have the molds, we'll load some up...
Oh sure, you listen to the cereal that tells you snap crackle POP POP POP. Typical gun nut. Always looking for something to shoot. The voices in MY head listen to good old mushy oatmeal with the Quaker's message of peace and a healthy breakfast.
when it comes to fly fishing and firearms, I do carry one, mainly because I don't like being a "victim" from people or animals. That being said I don't carry one everywhere. If I'm fishing one of the popular Montana rivers or somewhere else relatively "safe" where bears and tweakers are uncommon, I don't understand the point of packing heat, other then looking like a dick. However, if I'm fishing the Skykomish or other "urban" rivers early in the morning or late into the evening, I'll consider bringing my piece (concealed). If you've seen the kind of people and weird shit that happens on those streams, I think you'll understand. Or if I'm hiking into a remote river or lake in MT/WY/YNP where bears are a real possibility. Mainly because I personally don't trust spray and I feel confidant in my firearms ability.
I normally dont engage in threads such as this. but like many have pointed out, assuming your not a convicted felon you have a right to carry. So some people ask why? most people would say because I can. Some would ask why not? many would say because you dont have a need.
regardless of how you feel its not breaking any law, some people feel safer and more prepared by carrying, some feel like it just causes problems... Well guess what this isnt North Korea and you can think what you want. So i dont see much of a point in getting butt hurt with one another.
To add to that i guess if one person has to shoot a wild crazed beaver they will say I told you so to the guy who doesnt carry, if the guy who carries some how falls on his gun or shoots himself the one not carrying will say I told you so. This is much like the "what came first, the fish or the egg debate" no one wins everyone ends up looking like an interwebz troll.
For full disclosure, I do carry if I am going by myself, and yes i have drawn on someone once trying to break the window on my truck while fishing a Snoqualmie fork.
First of I'll say that I am similar to some other poster in this thread...I'm a huge tree hugging, animal loving, peaceful bleeding heart and I hate violence or disruptive behavior by others. I also don't vote Republican and won't ever if that tells you anything. I do own a handgun though mostly for home defense...I have never carried it in an urban environment and have never wanted to or felt the need to. Although I will on occasion carry when I'm in the backcountry doing any number of activities from fishing, climbing, backpacking etc. I don't carry in the woods because of predators; if a bear was going to attack me my weapon would more than likely just piss it off, a cougar would have it jaws in my neck before I could even think to reach for my gun and wolves don't attack humans (or it's so damn rare that I don't feel worried about it). The reason I will carry in the woods on occasion is for the same reason most others have said they will carry for...sketch heads. Other people in the woods impose more of a danger than any wild animal in my opinion. I've been to places in Idaho, Colorado and mostly in Washington where meth labs, tweekers, car break in's, hothead salmon snaggers, and just all around shady activity occur...it is these locations where crime is known to be a problem that I will carry. For me the point of carrying is not to feel protected during confrontations with others it's for security of life and property in a last resort situation where confrontation was already avoided as a first step and you face a situation where your right to life and property are in immediate jeopardy. It is in said situation that I believe it is morally right and constitutionally lawful to carry and use a firearm if needed.
Thanks, Chris. I encourage you to try getting comfortable without a gun while fishing in WA. I was ready to be done with this thread, but your story is so interesting, specifically that you pulled a gun on someone trying to break your truck window in an area where I have fished often with family and friends. I appreciate your honesty.
Here is the problem. People who carry guns in WA do not have the right to display their weapon in an intimidating manner. The only exception is if someone is trying to kill or maim them. In the unlikely event that someone intends to harm you in the wild, and you follow the law, then your gun will almost certainly be useless. You may have the right to carry, but your right to display/use is very limited.
I hope one of the experienced gun carrying anglers here will back me up. There is no legal scenario under which you have the right to pull or even show your gun to someone who is upsetting you in WA (unless they are actively trying to kill you). If you carry a gun, then you should be doubly committed to avoiding trouble. Know thyself, your weapon and the law.
We don't need cowboys carrying pistols when they go flyfishing in WA. I understand this is an Internet Forum where people can easily write anything, but at least a few people on this board appear cavalier or ignorant about the responsibilities that come with the decision to carry. In WA, there is no right to protect property with a gun outside your home.
Fished north of Anchorage on Montana creek with about 40 people shoulder to shoulder back in the late 70's, four nice silvers, lots of tangles, no guns pulled! I always carry in Montana at my place, since the fish can often run to several hundred pounds, and shooting into the water next to them stuns them just long enough to remove the fly.
You are for the most part correct...brandishing a firearm is a gross misdemeanor under Washington state law RCW code 9.41.207. That means using your firearm in any manner that intimidates or causes alarm. The part about only being able to shoot someone who is actively trying to kill you is a little off in the wording. WA is a stand your ground state meaning that if you or someone you are with encounters threatening "unlawful force" by another then at that point in time your are legally entitled to use any amount of force you deem necessary to protect yourself or someone else from any bodily harm.
When it comes to protecting property the law is less cut and dry. You do have the right to protect your property. If it is a home invasion the law states that unlawful force is already assumed and you can defend your life and property against someone using whatever means you fit on your property. On public property is where it's a bit trickier. You can make a citizens arrest upon which the law states you have the right to use "reasonable force" to detain the suspect. According to a King County prosecutor If someone broke into your car, drawing your firearm as intimidation and holding the suspect at gun point till police arrive would likely be considered reasonable force as well, say, shooting out the suspect tires. Shooting them in the back as they run away would likely not be considered reasonable force by any prosecutor.
G you may want to read RCW 9A 16.050.
Sent from my little square phone thingy...
Just a small point to be made.
The Bill of Rights doesn't grant any rights. It puts into law protection of those rights that every human being who has ever been born came into the world with. Regardless of whether someone carries or not, they should hold ALL of those rights dear, and question any person attempting to rob them of those precious rights.
Your post contains important information, but it is full of typos and errors such that its meaning is not quite clear. Can you edit and clean it up?
Along these lines of actually using a firearm, it's important to note that even if you are justified in use, you may well still go to jail or be charged with a crime. There are some flaky prosecutors in WA state. For example, a former citizen with a record of bad behavior, who disregarding zoning and various property laws and regulations, threatened to kill neighbors, and some of said neighbors were even advised by a country deputy to arm themselves because of the rural location and long LE response times. So some of said neighbors did arm themselves because of the unstable and threatening behavior of the bad actor. Then one day last spring, the bad actor was observed carrying two plastic jugs toward one of the neighbor's pickup truck that was in a field. The owner of the truck and the land saw the bad guy heading toward his truck and ran back to see what was going on. A confrontation occurred, and the truck and property owner ended up shooting and killing the guy who was a chronic bad guy. One might expect that the County would give the owner a medal for making the neighborhood a safer place. But instead the County prosecutor has charged the owner with 2nd degree murder. So he was able to defend himself against the bad guy with a gun, but it's costing him and his family just about everything they own to defend himself against the County.
So even when you rightfully keep yourself and your family and property safe from harm, it can still make an absolute mess of your life.
Thanks for pointing out the typos. I'm on my iPhone so I'll just blame it. Thai site isn't very mobile friendly. I will go back and try to edit.
So true Salmo. In this day and age of litigation, one can do everything right and still be sued; however, when it comes down to defending the very life of myself, family or friends, I'd still rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.
Sent from my little square phone thingy...
If you have to defend yourself, make sure you're in Asotin or Pend Oreille County. I wouldn't try defending myself with deadly force in King County.
Born & raised in the rattlesnake-infested region of central Texas, so I have no objection to killing rattlers. But I recommend don't shoot them. Use rocks. Ones the size of footballs or loaves of bread are damned effective.
I have a c.c. permit. Seldom carry when fishing, but do when the locale or situation justifies it in my mind. My fishing buddies usually carry. Like others have said, I cannot imagine ever needing it, but it's there if that 1-in-1000 emergency required it. My first, 2nd, 3rd, ... and umpteenth preferred choice is simply to peacefully and quickly leave any situation like that.
Good fishing, to all!