Rediculous Guide Prices

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Thomas Williams, Jun 27, 2012.

  1. Salmo_g

    Salmo_g Active Member

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    Thomas,

    I'd like those 5 names. I don't have a drift boat, and there are places I'd like to go on the OP where that would be handy and worth it. Of course I'd have to consider their credentials with the more expensive guide I've fished with to make a real value determination.

    Sg
     
  2. Old Man

    Old Man Just an Old Man

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    I always thought that fishing was supposed to be fun. You take the price of hiring a guide then the fun as I see it goes out of it.. Being that I'm a cheap bastard, I go when the mood strikes me. But I have never in my time of fishing ever hired a guide. To me if fishing was work I wouldn't do it.
     
  3. Brian Miller

    Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

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    Not debating the cost of engaging a guide or the value of the services performed but if the income is being reported, all of those expenses are tax deductible that, I found out as an independent contract musician, are supposed to at least help pay for, and the wear and tear on items used for generating the income, even including those $imms fishing shirts if it can be demonstrated they are used solely for generating business revenue. And one could argue that marketing one's independent contractor Guide services 24x7 is more effective if one looks the part on and off the water.

    And to the comment that it may not be a full time gig, I used to generate enough income as a part-time musician with a steady day job to buy some really nice tax deductible instruments and other gear without getting "Pro" discounts while staying above board with the IRS and still be able to pay cash to replace a broken-down washing machine or some-such with the extra income. And if you aren't making enough to generate a profit as a part-timer so you can deduct the costs of doing business and stay legal with the IRS, being a Guide and incurring the costs is a personal decision.

    That said, given the priorities my wife and I have for our (single) disposable income, I can't afford guide services. I can ONLY consider it on the rare occasion I would be brand new to a very exotic destination, and I have to be satisfied with the consequences of that or I might as well give up fly-fishing as one of life's greatest joys for me.
     
  4. Brian Miller

    Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

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    double post
     
  5. Freestone

    Freestone Not to be confused with freestoneangler

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    Brian, what you describe probably fits many part-time guides with other sources of income, including many cut-rate ones. However, I have dated or lived with 3 full-time guides and I have seen the tax returns. I run a successful small business so I undertand business accounting. Therefore, I insisted one of them keep books like a real business (as you mentioned above) and when he did, he was shocked. He lost money. With that knowledge and a good accounting firm, it took him several more years just to break even. While all the expenses are tax deductable, they are still expenses that come out of that $400/day. If one accurately accounts for all the business-related expenses, there is often not a lot of real profit left at the end of the year - much less than many of us, including me, would be willing to work for.

    Guiding is exhausting work. Like any small service business, what the clients see is only part of the guide's workday which often starts hours before clients arrive and ends hours after they leave. (just ask their families) If someone wants to do it for $100-150/day and they can somehow make money or at least feed themselves doing it, more power to them. If they keep real books like a proper business, my guess is that they would cry if they looked at their real hourly after tax profit/take-home pay while they are on the water, much less the total hours they spend on their guide business.
     
  6. bennysbuddy

    bennysbuddy the sultan of swing

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    They are hiring at boeing !!!!!
     
  7. Kcahill

    Kcahill Active Member

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    350-450 is on the cheaper side, east coast(carolinas to the keys) guides run around 600ish a day, on the gulf side they are a little cheaper not much. In the tropics you are probably looking at 250ish walk and wade and 400ish + for a flats boat(and those are not full days). Serious salt water fishing(gear or fly) will run you anywhere from 125 each with 6 guys to 700ish+ if you want the boat to yourself.

    I dont understand why people complain about guide prices, if you don't want to pay it...then don't.


    I fish with a guide 5-10 times a year while traveling on business when I get a day off in a strange land, and only once have I ever thought it was not worth the money.
     
  8. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

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    Comparing gear guides with fly fishing guides is silly. Comparing freshwater guide rates with saltwater guide rates is even sillier.

    Heck, even comparing the price per person for a 6-pack charter in the ocean with a boat that fishes 20+ is crazy. There are all kinds of variables that come into play when guiding.

    Signed,
    Failed Guide who did not charge enough to cover costs
     
  9. dflett68

    dflett68 Active Member

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    truth. taxes are just one line in the expense section of a p&l statement. people talk about tax deductible items as if the government somehow pays you back for them. if you buy a rod and don't pay taxes on it, you've still bought the rod. these guys aren't making any serious money unless they are part of a larger operation which can consolidate and absorb overhead expenses across multiple (and profitable) revenue streams. even then, the person making the money would be the owner of that operation, not the guide, unless they were the same person. the op claimed to have a list of reputable guides who charge $150 to fish sunup to sundown. but he still hasn't offered any names, and, no pun intended, that's the bottom line.
     
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  10. Patrick Gould

    Patrick Gould Active Member

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    I think he's talking jet sled outfits that take out four or more people, or six pack charters in the salt.
     
  11. golfman65

    golfman65 Guest

    I think this would be a good spot for yuhina to explain the physic's of guiding!!!

    If I hire a guide, I want Pan as he's the "herb guide" at his spot and that's no bacon....

    I would rather fish with a stranger and catch fish any day over fishing with a friend and not...hell go to a bar if that's what's important to you...IMHO that is..
     
  12. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

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    The $100/day guides probably hang out with the $25/hr tattoo artists
     
  13. Rick Todd

    Rick Todd Active Member

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    So you have never hired a guide? So how do you know that you wouldn't like it? I bet if I paid for a guided trip for you with one of the excellent guides in Dillon, you would have an absolute ball! (and even an old fly fisher like you would learn something!)
     
  14. Brian Anderson

    Brian Anderson Member

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    so i have to chime in ya it cost a little bit but the guide hase to make a living just like the
    rest of us small business owners do and every one need to start supporting american business not japan china or any other country that pays very little for there labor if we start paying american workers the money will soon be in your hands and you could spend a little more because you made more. support local economy it will work. I had a bad year last year i needed to get that off my chest thank you. now you can attack me.
     
  15. Jamie Wilson

    Jamie Wilson Active Member

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    Who is the OP?
     
  16. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

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    Vampires and the lot, shiny people. Best stay away.
     
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  17. Benjy

    Benjy Active Member

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    Optimus Prime
     
  18. Brian Miller

    Brian Miller Be vewy vewy qwiet, I'm hunting Cutthwoat Twout

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    I completely agree with everything you said Sue, and am not disputing the cost, the value, or the hard work that a good Guide provides (and the personal sacrifices they make to do so) to clients who decide they have the disposable income to afford the services.

    Priorities...
     
  19. Bill Aubrey

    Bill Aubrey Active Member

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    Hell, Rick, pay to take me on a guided trip in the Dillon area. I'll say I liked it and then say so would have OMJ. And we can start another thread.
    Not sure why we're busting guides' chops here. I've fished with several and every one, except one miserable guy who was added on to have enough guides for our party and clearly wanted to be elsewhere (he kept saying as much) was well worth the money. And I don't have nearly as much as I used to. The ones I know bust their hump from early morning till early evening trying to help you catch fish and give you special memories. And then they go home and get ready for the next day if they are lucky enough to be booked. See, that's one of the problems--they might not be. A lot of downtime in that business, what with weather, blown rivers, and who knows what else. And when they work, they get to fish with some great folks. And, a helping of flaming jackasses. You know, I wish that I could be a guide--but, there's no way I would. The pay just isn't there.
     
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  20. Jeremy Floyd

    Jeremy Floyd fly fishing my way through life

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    What is the opportunity to tap into a lifetime of fishing experience worth?
     

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