Restaurant serving wild steelhead

Discussion in 'Steelhead' started by TomB, Mar 19, 2007.

  1. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Agreed, having the law changed would be a good thing (if one doesn't already exist). But I would state that we as a whole aren't harassing someone. It is well within reason to state a contrary opinion on any product by any company. To not do so would be completely un-american! :)
     
  2. TomB

    TomB Active Member

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    you volunteering to take on Boldt? good luck with that one. I hardly see it as harassment for a group of consumers to actively and vocally show their preferences for environmentally sound decisions in the restaurant business. Are the many americans demanding more fuel-efficient cars 'harassing' GM and Ford? I don't think so.

    And for voting...a little thing called checks and balances which is part of our constitution, aims at preventing voters from determining outcomes in the judicial branch...if the system is working...voting alone will not change Boldt....there is certainly progress to be made with the Dept of fish and wildlife though, and believe me, my vote is conscious of that.
     
  3. TomB

    TomB Active Member

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    they stopped selling it due to pressure from conservation and angling groups like ourselves
     
  4. cjsmith

    cjsmith New Member

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    People with pictures of themselves holding fish out of the water (for a picture) before releasing should be more concerned with their own conservation practices before getting upset with a restaurant serving wild steelhead.
     
  5. JS

    JS Active Member

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    Prepare to be flamed....:eek:

    The difference here guy is this, wild steelies that are hung slightly above the water for a photo have a bit (noted sarcasm on "bit") more of a chance to contribute to the gene pool than one served up in a yuppie resaurant.
     
  6. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    Mortality rate for a quick picture is what? Any idea?

    Mortality rate for a knucklehead's dinner plate = 100%.

    Figure it out genius...


    Oh, welcome to the board ;)
     
  7. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    First post... bold... strong... but not smooth... I'd rate it a 6 out of 10 for the trollieness :)

    Welcome to the board :)
     
  8. cjsmith

    cjsmith New Member

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    My point is that lifting a fish out of the water for a picture contributes to the physiological stress that increases fish mortality. Is it 3%.....10% i don't know...obviously less than 100%. Do I have a problem with fisherman doing this...not really but thats why I am not speaking out against restaurants serving wild steelhead. If i was spearheading a campaign to stop this practice in restaurants I would definately look at my own fishing practices first. Its kind of like the environmentalist activist who preeches about global warming who owns 3 large homes and flys in private jets.....falls on deaf ears.
     
  9. chadk

    chadk Be the guide...

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    it's a catch 22... it is most often the guys who are passionate about fishing for wild steelhead who are the most outspoken when it comes to protecting them.

    Or, are you a passionate steelheader who could care less what happens to wild fish? Or you like the idea of 100% hatchery brats in our future? Give us a little more of your perspective if you will...
     
  10. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Agreed. But before we get to far down the road of no return, let's evaluate the major posters on this particular thread:

    TomB - He's the complete soup nazi in terms of fish out of water. Take a look at his post history and what he says in the foto gallery. The man is so intense about keeping fish in the water, that he strips to his skivvies and dives in the like he's on fire when he hooks a steelhead (picture Ricky Bobby)...

    Les - Fishing legend. Was one of the motivators for getting the SRC on the path of a C&R season.

    In sum total everyone would agree with what you are saying, but at the same time, the folks you are speaking to are a part of the solution, not the problem. If you feel that I'm in error, please privately PM me and we can discuss further.

    Beyond that, I must say that chadk has it right. A fish out of water results in a % chance of mortality. A fish on a dinner plate certainly has 0% chance of survival.

    -- Cheers
    -- James
     
  11. Coach Duff

    Coach Duff Banned or Parked

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    This was years ago, but I embarked on a save the wild steelhead crusade. I probably hit a dozen fish mongers around Seattle and Bellevue that were selling fresh wild steelhead. The Pike Place Market used to stack up OP wild steelhead like cordwood at every fish monger there. I left home a few years ago, so I have no idea what its like now. Anyways, I called Fish and Game on every site making sure things were on the up and up. I was told by the owner of the fish market right off of the Ave in the University District that as long as the fish is bought from an authorized tribal entity, its okay. Of all the places I checked, all were selling wild steelhead and all were legal according to Fish and Game. We are talking about a shitload of fish, especially wild Hoh river steelies which seemed to be the main supply river. And to think, the runs are moving swiftly into the depressed range on that river.:eek: The "bright side" :rolleyes: is that in a few years when the river is fished out we'll just buy the tribe a hatchery and let them manage it with hatchery mutants so they can continue to live by the traditions and conservation minded stewardship they have followed for thousands of years.;) Granted, the newcomers to the New World (us) are the ones who really did and are still doing the lions share of the damage but at some time our half stewards and co-managers as established by treaties and then Judge Boldt have to admit "way of life" is becoming a weaker rallying cry every time a set of nets is pulled out of the mouth of a river (or left in to rot for months with the native fish dead in it. As for ripping Tom for holding the fish out of the water, get in the back of the line. We've all taken a shot at Tom a time or two. That's cherry picking though. Easy. The bottom line is that Tom is passionate and puts the fish first and I feel fortunate that he and Will and our other young warriors are someday going to be the stewards and watchdogs and managers of our dwindling precious resource. For that we are lucky indeed.
     
  12. Citori

    Citori Piscatorial Engineer

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    If it is possible for one person's actions to have an impact on global warming (which I respectfully question, but still a widely held premise), then one person's actions can certainly impact the acceptablity of a local practice.

    Wild steelhead, IMHO, are off limits - Period. I don't have any problem letting any vendor or restaurateur know my opinion, as a dissatisfied customer. I exercise this right routinely on a range of issues, and I encourage those with the courage of their convictions to do the same.

    Regardless of the status of the law of the land, if there is no market for, or a negative impact on sales as a result of attempting to sell wild steelhead, then there will be no one to buy them, and no reason to kill them.

    It is written, "When you've got them by the balls (wallet), their hearts and minds will follow."
     
  13. cjsmith

    cjsmith New Member

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    I have not had the oppertunity to fish for steelhead although I hope to in the future. I fish mostly for trout in WA, BC, and Alberta. I am sorry if my comments are "out of line". I just want to make the point that the handling of fish once caught is important to survival rate. The fact that it might only make a 5% diff in mortality rate is significant. I bet in 10 years from now young conservation minded fisherman will snear at any oldtimer pulling a wild fish out of the water just to take a picture. Also, my point wasn't to be "holier than now" first time poster. I just think that in order for companies like Puget Sound Energy to care about small negative effects on fish populations..we as fisherman need too as well. And yes being a conservation minded fisherman is a catch 22....I am the first one to except that reality as many fish that I catch and release and up dead......But picking up a fish for a picture is needless excess if you want to be taken seriously in your plight for conservation.
     
  14. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    What the hell are you talking about? Sure those guys are lifting the fish out of the water which is harder on them, I can't argue that, but the point is to take a pic and let it go: catch and release.

    According to your logic fishermen who catch and release wild steelhead are equal or similar to a restaurant serving wild steelhead. This is bullocks!
     
  15. HauntedByWaters

    HauntedByWaters Active Member

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    Not mine. I have repeatedly caught the same steelhead and trout and salmon from the same holes on multiple days in multiple seasons in several instances. It isn't the norm at all but over the course of my life it has happened several times.

    Sometimes these fish fight HARDER after I have already caught them......

    I think you need to learn a little something about water temps and how they effect fish if you are fishing lakes and your releases are ending up dead. Lakes around here in the summer usually get WAY TOO WARM to release salmonoids and not have them die. Many of us here choose not to fish these lakes at these times.

    BTW there are plenty of WELL educated fish & wildlife scientists and professionals on this forum that would be more than happy to explain to you the way that things are and where you are wrong and right. You throw so much out there in those posts it almost seems you are assuming most of what you say and this bothers me a lot. Look before you lead, read before you write boy!
     
  16. TomB

    TomB Active Member

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    For the record: I have never held a wild steelhead out of the water...ever.

    Also- while i certainly don't condone breaking that law (see my posts on peoples' photos), and i hope people do think about their own fishing and practices critically, i still believe that this group of anglers, while it may be imperfect (who is?) still has a valid point in trying to stop the sale of wild steelhead
     
  17. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Way to go Tom and Les! :cool:
     
  18. cjsmith

    cjsmith New Member

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    Your right. I guess I am wrong about mortality rates in regards to catch and re leased fish, your statistical evidence supports your theory that since "some" of your released fish have lived than "All" of them must have lived. You should ask if some of your WELL educated fish & wildlife scientist friends want to publish that theory in their scientific journals. I guess I am not a "genius" as someone earlier stated.
     
  19. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Before this tiff gets out of hand, can we move some of this out of band? I feel a bit guilty that some of this is my fault, and as this seems to be a pretty good thread, and it would be a waste to have a flame war ruin it....
     
  20. Be Jofus G

    Be Jofus G Banned or Parked

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    Hi.

    There are a bunch of different studies that have been done on the impact of C&R and methods of C&R on the mortality of certain fish including steelhead. Some even held by members of this forum and possibly posters in this thread I'd have to reread the threads to be suref you are interested, quite a few have been discussed on this forum and can be found using the search feature. Pretty interesting stuff. jbuehler is correct that pulling fish out of the bottom of a layered lake in the summer and releasing it increases the the risk of mortality. You are also correct that hero shots also increase mortality. Like I said, if you'd like to know the percentages, there scientifically determinted tests floating around if you look for them. :beer2:

    I don't think anyone will argue that catching, marinating and then grilling a wild steelhead before releasing it does not result in 100% mortality. :rofl:

    I think it is awesome that a resturaunt owner now relalizes the impact of his own actions on the steelhead runs because of the information provided by people here. That coupled with the fact he actually did something to correct it without legally having to correct it makes me feel 100% comfortable spending my hard earned dollars in his place of business.
     

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