Restricting Guides Services on Some Rivers?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dryflylarry, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    I fish around in some other states for trout. The best fishing I have found is where guide service is not permitted on the river. The fishing is fabulous. (I don’t know where there are many “No Guides Permitted” rivers, but haven’t researched it) So, I have come to the conclusion that guide services impact rivers quite negatively because of the tremendous fishing pressures put on the rivers. I think this rule should be applied on more rivers to enhance the fishing quality. What say you? What is your opinion or have you thought of this much before? I don’t expect to be popular after this post….
  2. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    I definitely think there are several rivers that could benefit greatly from this; especially rivers with ESA listed runs. ESA listed runs in the Columbia system get absolutely HAMMERED by guide services, especially the Klickitat and Methow.

    I know the OP runs are considered to be "healthy" by the powers that be; but with the increase in both guide and non-guide pressure, in addition to excessive gill netting, these rivers won't be far behind as far as the whole ESA listing thing goes.

    (my opinion only pertains to steelhead. i don't know nearly enough about trout fisheries to have much of an opinion there.)
  3. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    Let's see some empirical data to support your opinion. I've even supplied a Wikipedia link so you have a head start.
  4. Chris Bellows

    Chris Bellows Your Preferred WFF Poster

    being right isn't always popular. the guide industry has a few good eggs but there are a ton of guides who care little about the resource. commercializing rivers does them little good.

    it would be nice if certain stretches of rivers were guide free, but i personally think a "no fishing from floating device" would do as much good without as much negative reaction.
  5. Calvin1

    Calvin1 Member

    I like the rules on the Beaverhead River in Montana, as I remember them. Not sure if this is completely accurate, nor if it remains in place today. Essentially, there are two upper sections that are preferred floats on the river, Highbridge to Henneberry, and Heneberry to Pipe Organ. Guides are not permitted to take clients on the weekend, and out of staters are limited to one section on Saturday, and the other on Sunday. Guides cannot take clients on Floats below the second section. Not sure if that would work on any of the rivers that you're thinking of, but seems to work nicely on this particular river in Montana, and everyone remains relatively happy.
  6. Derek Young

    Derek Young 2011 Orvis Endorsed Fly Fishing Guide Of The Year

    How elite of the locals who have paid off the landowners and the politicians for the "right" to fish public water...
  7. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    I also support a "No Fishing From Floating Devices" rule on our Wild Steelhead rivers here on the Olympic Peninsula.

    Additionally I would like to see an outright ban on any recreational fishing or guiding / commercial fishing on any system under restoration.
  8. Calvin1

    Calvin1 Member

    I don't understand the point that you're making with this comment? Who has paid off for a right to do anything? Locals are given an opportunity to have an exclusive right to fish certain sections of the river without guides or even out of state self guided individuals. Of course, anyone can wade during these times, the rules only apply to floats. I don't get where you make the leap to Elitists or any payoff of the landowners and/or politicians. If I'm being ingnorant, I don't mind if someone calls me out on it, I just need to be able to understand the ignorance.
  9. Bob Neal

    Bob Neal Member

    I'm not particularly educated on the subject other than spending 4 years living in Oregon. We fished the Deschutes a ton and the "no fishing from the boat" law seemed like a great one. Of course we would have caught more fish if we could fish from the boat but so would everyone else. It was still a great time fishing and I'm sure it's a better fishery because of it.
  10. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

    I think some rivers should be designated fishing permitted with licensed guide only and limit the number of guides allowed to work on those rivers.
  11. East Fork

    East Fork Active Member

    Why not make some rivers guide only. Appoint some river keepers and let them do their jobs. This might be a better system on some rivers some parts of the year then the free-for-all we have today.
  12. Evan Burck

    Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Because we're talking about a public resource, not a private club.
  13. isaacfab

    isaacfab Member

    Guides are incredibly important to conservation awareness. If not for guides only a hand full of people would have an interest in wild steelhead. There is no other group of people more interested in a healthy fishery. I'm not a guide but I can say this guide hating is a little absurd, its only proof so far being an anecdote about how fishing was great once. Conservation efforts are stifled by nonsensical charges like this. I'm new to this sport but not to consrevation. How about focusing on things that can be changed and have larger impacts like banning the use is lead in fishing products. Interesting that duck hunters have to use steel shot but fishermen are alowed to dump massive amounts of the stuff in every piece of water unfortunate enough to have fish.
  14. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    Don, Our rivers have already been sold out to commerce far enough. These waters are a public resource for all. "Limited Entry" for guides could be applied here one day. Or they will simply shut down all fishing. That is a distinct possibility. How many seasons like this one; where they closed the Puget Sound rivers and displaced all of the fishermen and guides out to the Peninsula Rivers to hammer the crap out of the last fish, will it take to utterly destroy what is left? Not fishing out of or directly from boats/floats would help to limit the damages. As would stopping wild steelhead harvest.
  15. Davy

    Davy Active Member

  16. Bob Triggs

    Bob Triggs Your Preferred Olympic Peninsula Fly Fishing Guide

    I dont see any "guide hating" here. just a reasonable question posed to limit the impacts of commercial guiding on fragile runs of fish.
  17. jeff bandy

    jeff bandy Make my day

    How about this idea. Getting a float permit for a river. Might work like this. You stop by to pick up your permit no more than say 48 hours before hand. It's a hard plastic tag you hang on your boat. Must be returned the next day or a fine. There would be a limit on how many were issued for each day. Different color for each day of the week.

    The guides would have a separate tag and limit per day on this same river. If your a guide. You must carry a Washington state guide lic. This you can only get if you live in the state. No more out of state guides flooding in during the high season. If your a guide and take one of the public permits, loss of guide lic.

    I know there are tons of ways to make this sound like a bad idea. And I'm sure no one will like this idea. But, if you stop and think about it for just a second..... It will lower/spread out the pressure on the rivers. It will insure a uncrowded day for you and your customers. It will restrict the number of guilds in competition for a limited resource. Thus allowing guilds to make a living.


    Saying it's a bad idea without offering a alternative is not constructive.
  18. ryfly

    ryfly Addicted to flyfishing

    Therfore only those who can afford a guide are able to fish that river? How nice to be economically selective and in most cases eliminate those who live in the area from actually being able to fish the river in their backyard.
  19. Don Freeman

    Don Freeman Free Man

    Applied judiciously, this is a promising experiment. The regulations could be adjusted for each drainage with special consideration for fragile populations, timing of native runs, requiring the harvest of pre-spawn hatchery fish, and open to the public when and if impact on wild escapement is low.

    It is certainly easier to monitor the actions of a limited number of guides who demonstrate ethics and compliance with regulations than unlimited access, especially considering the strained resources for enforcement. This not a new concept in the west, rivers like the Rogue and Deschutes are limited to numbers of guides licensed, river running is by lottery, and fishing from boats prohibited. There was a lot of noise when these changes were made, but people now accept the status quo, and these resources have maintained or improved in quality of experience.
  20. wolverine

    wolverine Member

    Guide only water? Sure. Put them all on the Sammamish Slough.