Restricting Guides Services on Some Rivers?

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dryflylarry, Feb 28, 2011.

  1. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,129
    Olympia
    Ratings: +180 / 1
    Jesse,

    I think that is exactly the point. There has to be refuge for the fish. If you can effectively cover every inch of a river either swinging nymphing or beading, the fish don't have much of a chance. It was kind of funny, reading a post by Salmo G last night. He talked about before the concept of the spey rod came along here in washington, there was safe zones for fish. This was water that was not able to be effectively covered by fishermen.
  2. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,129
    Olympia
    Ratings: +180 / 1
  3. dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Posts: 4,097
    Near the Fjord
    Ratings: +563 / 0
    Excellent! We will now ban Spey Fishing for steelhead, and nymphing for trout! It works! Right? Except Dustin is gonna cheat!
  4. dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

    Posts: 4,097
    Near the Fjord
    Ratings: +563 / 0
    NOTICE: Here's a fact I just confirmed with a favorite fly shop of mine. They have 178 people "signed up" for their "Introduction to Fly Fishing" classes for the time frame from January to July. So..... "welcome new fly fisher's, but could you please scoot over a little ways away from me? You're bumping my elbows, thank you". DFL ------ I'm not sure what to say right now, but, you get the point. We need more guides on our rivers!!!!! Not to mention, elbow room..... wholly crap!
  5. Benjy Active Member

    Posts: 309
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +57 / 0
    I think that the biggest problem with guides out here is the total lack of barrier to entry into guiding. There are people advertising all over Craigslist. IMO a guide should at a minimum be required to carry insurance and first aid/CPR. I would prefer that a guide had to have a WFR certification and Swiftwater Rescue I. Anyone can be a guide here, I have a boat, maybe I'll just pay my $40 and call myself a guide? I would love to see no fishing from boats, on some rivers.
  6. Dustin Bise Active Member

    Posts: 3,089
    509
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    sounds good to me since i nymph for steel and prefer dries for trout. and i dont own a spey rod. :) damn im not even gonna get my new camo waders and ninja mask out of the package.
  7. Dustin Bise Active Member

    Posts: 3,089
    509
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    While anyone can be a guide, not every guide service can launch 10 boats a day on the same river :p
  8. rick matney Active Member

    Posts: 1,302
    Bozeman, Montana
    Ratings: +3 / 0
    What about having to pass a fish conservation and handling test/class to get a license in that state. Something I would like to see done here in MT for a hunting license. Added small fee to the license to cover cost. Education over regulation........?
  9. John Hicks Owner and operator of Sea Run Pursuits

    Posts: 2,129
    Olympia
    Ratings: +180 / 1
    Ouch! watch out Reds. LOL funny to see them hammer the Met this fall. Well actually not funny.
  10. Don Freeman Freeman

    Posts: 1,252
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +204 / 0
    Benjy gets it. They used to make it tough in Oregon. To be recognized by the Oregon guides and Packers, you had to have all the above, plus be sponsored by two current members and voted in. When you hired a certified guide, you knew what you were getting. I had to do all that just to row splash and giggle trips.
  11. JesseC Active Member

    Posts: 1,966
    seattle, wa
    Ratings: +726 / 0
    Did you see that one part, where I said I was speaking from a trout guy's experience? Rarely use beads for trout. They do WORK GREAT when you're matching the hatch though.

    Just because you use a less effective method of fishing - doesn't mean you're a better fisherman or even a more responsible fisherman.

    Your goal is still to stick a trout in the lip and fight it in- just like everyone else.
  12. Don Freeman Freeman

    Posts: 1,252
    Olympia, WA
    Ratings: +204 / 0
    Just checking, bustin, are you calling me out? Because I'm not going to bite. I'm sure I can get punched here locally without driving clear across the state.
  13. Dustin Bise Active Member

    Posts: 3,089
    509
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    Haha no its not like that. Im not a violent person.
  14. Benjy Active Member

    Posts: 309
    Tacoma, WA
    Ratings: +57 / 0
    HUGE problem in Montana. Outfitters should be limited to one boat per access site per day.
  15. Chris Bellows The Thought Train

    Posts: 1,627
    The Salt
    Ratings: +753 / 0
    for every "good" guide there are 5-10 (or more) who could give a rip about the resource. been to a commission meeting on protecting wild steelhead? count the guides. then count the guides in favor of protecting wild steelhead. do you think you will make it past one hand. check and see how many washington state steelhead guides donate trips to wild fish conservation organizations. can you make it past a hand? how many guides do you think fished the quillayute system on president day's weekend? i think you would run out of fingers and toes counting.

    look at the blogs and websites of guides fishing rivers barely making or missing escapement. do you read about conservation? or is it just hero shot after hero shot with talk about how great the fishing is. guidespeak and reality do not meet.

    it sucks that the number of rivers open to fishing keep declining along with the fish runs, but we do have an issue with the number of boats and guides on our rivers. there are ideas worth investigating to help improve not only the fishing experience but also to possibly help some of the returning fish.
  16. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,443
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,619 / 2
    Education should be required just to fish for any wild fish in this state in my opinion. Further education/safety courses should be required for guides.
  17. Andrew Lawrence Active Member

    Posts: 734
    Renton, WA.
    Ratings: +100 / 0
    Speaking strictly in regards to wild steehead fisheries on the O.P., I would love to see a ban on fishing from boats. However, I doubt that the state would find value in the conservation benefit such a rule would entail, due to the fact that quite a few of the steelhead runs on the O.P. are considered healthy enough to allow an angler to harvest 1 wild steelhead per year. However, I suppose that one might be able to make a decent case for such a rule in sections of rivers where selective gear rules are in effect.

    Furthermore, I am not so sure that limiting the number of guides will make much of a difference. However, using a raffle system to issue a limited number of boat permits using some sort of tier system to assign priority to certain user groups might not be a bad idea. For example, locals get first priority. (In other words, this would be the user group who gets the majority of the boat permits.) Those ouside of lets say the zip code get second priority. Those outside of the state get third priority. (In other words, the lesser number of boat permits are issued to this user group.) Anyhow, these are my thoughts on the matter.

    Regards,

    Andrew
  18. Davy Active Member

    Posts: 2,021
    SIlverton, OR
    Ratings: +16 / 0
    This is true too, fly fishing should be flyfishing. No lead. Want to nymph? Okay, high stick and or learn to read your leader like we did back in the day. I have never understood how so many "flyfisher people" overlook the fact that this is plain ol' bobber fishing.

    Infact, I think if a "modern flyfisher" were to use a old school red and white plastic bobber as one of his idiotcators he would be ridiculed for "bobber" fishin by many. Thats how stupid we have become.

    Here's a poll. How many of you when socializing with friends might tell them you went "flyfishing" last week or over the weekend or whatever?. Back in the day, we would tell them we went fishing. Many of today's fisherman for some reason feel the need to express the fact that they went " flyfishing". What is that if not elitism?

    Learn to "fish" and learn to swing and all will be good

    oh well, tonights scotch was a good vintage
  19. freestoneangler Not to be confused with Freestone

    Posts: 3,970
    Edgewood, WA
    Ratings: +706 / 1
    As with most things in life, there has to be balance. Private waters fish loads better (on average) than do waters that get overfished... no real revelation here. I don't think the question should be about guides so much as simply the number of people fishing. It would seem reasonable to assume that not having guides allowed would reduce the fishing pressure -- but maybe not.

    With the fairly recent popularity of personal watercraft, places like the Green River at Flaming Gorge have been transformed into fishing super-highway's. I have a picture (will post if I can locate it) of a line of boats, the vast majority single seat pontoons, that I took from the hillside just downstream of the launch. It was comical to say the least -- there were 50+ all parked along the opposite side.

    For the sake or making a point, let's just assume the population of flyfishers doubled tomorrow and that those rivers which see the majority of pressure get the same attention. Factor in the same ratio of folks using personal watercraft and IMHO cutting out the guides would not be the difference in the fishing experience, tranquility or catch rate, getting worse.

    Truth is it might be worse w/o guides. I find they help educate folks on etiquette and most are good about giving bank/wade anglers space. Just imagine what that hypothetical doubling of fisherman might look like with no "formal training" :thumb:
  20. Evan Burck Fudge Dragon

    Posts: 6,443
    Duvall, wa
    Ratings: +1,619 / 2
    Seriously? How about going to start your own "I'm better because I only swing" thread and keep this one on topic.