Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by dryflylarry, Feb 28, 2011.
Dick, what would you charge to take me along?
I think is was four or five years ago I brought up the idea for a lottery or raffle, whatever you want to call it, for steelhead rivers. I am pretty sure I wasn't the first to think of this but I thought I was going to be tarred, feathered and run off the board for my suggestion. Amazing what a few years can do for an idea.
This is stupid. Ok then, since guides are the problem, and not miss-management, and not the nets, and not all the building on river banks, or the logging, or the dams, or the commercial fishing operations bribes, etc.ect.
Do you really think that if the state closed all the rivers to fishing that we would see a drastic improvement? Sports fishing is not the problem. Boats are not the problem. Nymphing is not the problem. Miss-management and river netting is the problem, one of many, but one that could be fixed tomorrow. Everyone is pissed because there are too many people on the rivers these days. Same old song and dance...30 years ago blah blah blah. If anyone has a bitch about too many people on the rivers then take the fist step...stay home. There, problem solved. If your not willing to do that, then learn to deal with the added pressure the best you can. Maybe you could actually meet some really cool people.
The fact of the matter is that there are more people on the rivers. More than ever. If you take all the guides off the rivers, you would still have all the presonal drift boats, sleds, rafts, and pontoon boats. You would still have millions of bank fisherman.
As far as the comment about for every good guide ther are 5-10 bad ones. You honestly think the percentage is better for non-guides? really?
Look at the finacial supporters of conservation groups and the finacial supporters of this website they ALL are guides or where guides, there would be next to ZERO fishing developement W/O guides. Kill or harm the fish? why would a guide want to kill its busness partner,, huh come on really. Yes regulate for numbers of guides on all river, lakes , saltwater etc... but dont blame them this is the greatest country in the world a free country its a free market get over it.
Why didn't you just say you were a trout guy in the beginning? especially on the spey posts..Shit if you would have done that I wouldn't have gotten all over you!!! World of difference...but I'll ask you this? would you pound the last few trout in your fav. river when the water is so warm it could kill them and use beads?
Fishing from boats and pounding the water with these rigs don't give the fish any break from the constant assault on them from all sides...The nice thing about swinging a fly is the fish won't mistake it for eggs and not try and crush it out of instinct. This is the big evil of roe etc. on systems with C&R policies etc. (this is a very simplified version but good enough for here)
What is hard for me to believe is how everyone on here seems to think that it's all about pounding the hell out of these fish and they are failures if they aren't catching them....These are winter steelhead not summer runs...(which granted Wa. state doesn't seem to have shit for so your missing the best part of steelheading) It's not supposed to be simple.. Who the hell said it was? I'm goddamn tired of hearing the crying over trips without hero shots....That's part of the "game" the trill of fishing this way...god forbid you might go a couple months without a tug...that's mainly your fault..learn to read water and fish it...and a helluva lot to do with our fishing over about 1% of historic numbers of these fish....shit they were once considered a nuisance fish and pissed off the salmon guys.. we should all be thankful we're still fishing for them period..
Yeah I harp on and on about beads...they are deadly in more then just catch rates and I'm tired of guys spouting conservation and then being dead silent about their using them...This isn't fancy..this is fact and that's why they are outlawed in states, provinces etc. I'm just curious as if you know that...why do you think it is and why do you persist?
Fishing from the bank and swinging a fly is hard...tough shit...the bead bobbers...you'll NEVER know what the true feeling is of matching your knowledge and skill against a wild fish and hooking one and going for a ride...the tug is the drug is overused and worn out but word...Your missing the best part of the experience to feed your ego's...you are not and never will be a true winter steelhead fly fisherman!!! You are a gear guy fishing with fly rods...tell yourself all you want but that's it in a nutshell...and there is nothing wrong with fishing gear and catching all the fish you can...then maybe one day you'll want something that is not mindless and take up a fly again...and hopefully there are still fish by then...
just for once...give the fish a freaking break... Yeah but you can all go to the hoh down and bust out your switch rods cause no one can cast anymore...fuck!!!
Get off your butts and walk a river, tell the guides you want to fish from the bars and maybe a change will happen? Yeah right but I know the shop in Port Angles is putting out a petition to address this and my name will be on it!!! Hope the whole WFF site would be onboard as well...
If you think the regs are crazy now,I can only think of the problems it would create,everybody bitches now about them. Can't we all just get along.
I catch a majority of my winter fish on the swing. But I still get joy out of getting one on a nymph rig. And who are you to tell me I don't understand this whole fishing thing? Last I checked, I'm pretty damn passionate about my fishing and caring about the resource. How I choose to fish that particular piece of water doesn't even factor in to any of it.
And you're right; I can't cast for shit. But I know how to fish my shitty cast better than 99% of the casterbaters I've watched.
I'm not against guides. Some of my very good friends are guides. However, depending on how its structured, I may disagree with certain guiding aspects. Guiding is a lower version of a commercial operation. How many bash commercial fishing on this site? Same idea, different levels of catch and impact. Guides are making money/profit off a public resource. They should have to pay for their impacts, just like non-guided recreational fishers should...with regard to their respective impact.
The state, likely through WDFW should have a bigger role in guiding operations such limiting the number of guides like what is done in Idaho and BC. In my opinion, guides should be better trained, have better credentials, and pay more for their privledge. Catch and keep guides should pay more for harvesting. C&R fishing should be discounted appropriately since their impact is smaller. Reducing the number of "wanna be" guides would go a long way to improving the social aspect of recreational fishing. Guides do not necessarily have the right to guide, it should be a privilege that is earned...by paying fees, taking courses, have specialized training, and should be limited. The general public should have more opportunity than guides and guiding should be emphasized for individuals who may not otherwise have an opportunity to fish (the elderly or handicapped, or charter fishing in the ocean or other big or dangerous water) than what the average citizen can access.
Finally, while preventing fishing from a boat may be appropriate for some waters as part of a biological or social management plan, it should be limited to the general public. Care is needed when applying broad restrictions. Many of you are only considering the fly fishing community as a whole. There is an entire, larger population segment to consider when applying blanket restrictions. The number one objective is providing the most recreational opportunity (and to an equal to WDFW but lesser extent in my book commercial opportunity) at the least amount of impact to the resource.
BTW Evan- send your fish handling pics to NOAA not WDFW
Since they're not ESA listed fish, I didn't think that would do any good.
I think only somebody born in washington state , should be able to fish in this state, and further more if you weren't born on 6/26/1960, you can only fish on odd numbered fridays !!!! How about that for being fair????
As resources become less and less, and the population
becomes larger and larger it would seem that one day
we will be on a lottery to fish a specific river or lake.
Glad I'm old and don't have to give a shit about the long
Just call me Polly Anna.
Thanks for the depressing link Larry.
See you on Friday the 15th, I'm calling in sick.
Polly Anna may be right. Hope you are not Dave! Friday the 15th? As in April 15th? Where would you be recovering from your short but severe 24 hour illness?
Here's my suggestion to guides and recreational anglers alike: If you're going to take from the resource or use it in any way, give back to it. Bitching on a message board or clicking a "like" button on Facebook doesn't count. Your time, money and/or personal talents can be put to use to fix some of these problems.
Thanks Evan. Maybe this whole dang thread should be read by the Fish and Wildlife Commission. Maybe someone in Olympia could learn what the attitudes are out in the "real fishing world"??
How could a boat ban NOT decrease the pressure on fish? Heck, I think a lottery system for some steelie rivers should be initiated. Think about it. What better way to raise funds for a depleted wild steelie river than to have a lottery in place for that river. It would be like the Smith in MT. People paying high dollars just to fish river "X".
It's human nature to have what others want. Have a ticket to fish for the Grey Ghost on a limited access river. Oh yeah, and no boats to protect the "safe zones" for fish.
What many people fail to think about when initiating a "no fishing from floating craft" rule is the detriment to the shoreline and spawning areas. I spend a lot of time on the Klickitat, Methow and Wenatchee systems in the fall and used to spend a lot of time on the Skagit and Sauk system in the spring. In the fall when people are out hammering on steelhead just happens to be the same time most of the fall kings are spawning. I don't know how many people I watched on the Klickitat this fall waltz down the river right through king reds. The same goes for guys walking the river, such as the Upper Sauk. Unfortunately the some of the worst violators of this are guys that like to swing the fly simply because the method requires you to wade.
Lets step back and really look at the situation before we try to target one user group and make them the scapegoat and the reason for our fisheries demise. There are plenty of reasons why our fisheries are suffering and I promise that guides are not the main reason.
That's a great point muddler. I stepped on what "looked" like a red once, made me sick to my stomach all day. Normally I'm really careful, but at that moment I was looking for a place to make my next cast and was careless.
Still, on a selective river that requires a guide, you would have a spotter. Or fish exclusively from a boat and not from shore with a limited number of boats. But now I've highjacked this thread and that may be another discussion for another day.
my bad, didn't know where it came from.
I suggest getting ahold of enforcement in these regions to see what their take on the fish handling rule is before you take the time to send emails. you might be surprised what you hear