Rod Breakage

Discussion in 'Saltwater' started by Sloan Craven, Nov 9, 2007.

  1. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    Hey all. THis is a topic that seems to occur when discussing flyfishingg in the salt. People claim TFos are prone to breakage more than other rods. I'm not knocking TFO Most of these same people like TFO rods and continue to fish with them. ANd feel with the warrenty, who cares??? This issue mostly on more game species... stripers, blues, bones, tuna... and only with larger weight rods used on the salt
    So any one seen thiss parttern?
     
  2. salt dog

    salt dog card shark

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    I haven't noticed a breakage problem, except for operator error. I've got 3: 4wt pro; 8 & 10 wt Ticr. Mostly I use them for back-up on trips and guest rods. Used the 10 wt for hot Dorado that took me down heavy to the cork, worked fine. Casted well. The 4 wt broke from careless use; new rod in hand 10 days after mailing.
     
  3. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

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    Funny you mentioned this about TFOs, I broke my new TFO Jim Teeney 10' 5pc 8wt last week, and it wasn't the fish, it was an obvious forgotten error. I was 100' from shore and didn't want to beach it, rather c&r at hand, I bent the rod try to closen the fish to me to release it, well bent it too far and SNAP, right at the top second section furrel.

    After breaking this 8wt, I was then forced to use the only backup I had, my TFO Ticrx 6wt, well I have to say that I never made the above mistake again and the 6wt performed FLAWLESS on MULTIPLE Chums up to 18lbs with a 12lb tippet.

    So it is true as said above, I would have to say 98% of all rod breakage is due to operator error.

    PS, here is a pic of a Chum yesterday I would guess would be around 15-18lbs, left me with about 30' of backing. My TicrX 6wt survived the battle.
     
  4. salt dog

    salt dog card shark

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    Shit, nasty looking dog Pancho. I bet that sucker was fun on a 6 wt, must have kicked your butt some, eh.
     
  5. D3Smartie

    D3Smartie Active Member

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    working in a fly shop i have heard my share of stories about TFO and the problems some people have with them. It deffinately seems that they are prone to breaking on big fish. Have heard from several people about rods that lasted one day when fishing warm water species.
    IMO most people cant look past the price to see the quailty of the product. TFO makes an inferior product that retails for a budget price. Who cares how little you payed for it when in the middle of your $3000 trip the rod explodes?
    now that the chum run is on i can;t wait to hear about the new wave of trashed rods that will be appearing shortly.
     
  6. flybill

    flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

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    Well I'm very happy with my TFO's, especially for the price. Your BS comment "TFO makes an inferior product that retails for a budget price." is beyond lame. Out of curiousity, does the shop you work in sell TFO rods or not? Just wondering if you have first hand experience or are just trying to bash TFO. I'm sure the high salt rods are great, and know some that swear by T&T's, Sages, Winstons's etc, but I also know that not everyone can afford the top end shit, even on a $3000 trip of a lifetime.

    I haven't done the tropical saltwater fishing for big fish, but I assume that any rod is going to be at risk if you get a big enough fish on it. Your fish fighting skills are also going to come into play and if you don't know how to fight a big fish, your chances of blowing up your rod are much higher. Same thing with a chum!

    There are lots of options with TFO, Echo and others and I just personally think it's lame to say something general like they are an inferior product. I doubt that the blanks are that much different, it's mainly the class of components on the rod and the finish work of the rod.

    Oh yeah, try to beat the warranty and time to get a rod back from TFO. I broke the tip on my 5wt Pro (completely my fault), sent it in with a check and the card, and got it back in a week. I've heard many stories of other manufacturer's taking much longer and some horror stories, more in the spey arena, of a few that will sometimes take 6 - 8 months or longer.

    For the price of the high end gear, buy two of the lower priced rods and don't worry about it. Of course if you have the money, connections (pro form discount) or fish for the big game fish frequently, then that's a different story... but many of us don't!

    Cheers!
    Bill :cool:
     
  7. gt

    gt Active Member

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    the same folks who break TFO's can more than likely do the same thing to a sage or a burkie. if you watch people with fly rods for very long, you will see them try to land fish by putting an incrediable bend in their rod while trying to snatch that fish. NO rod was ever designed to be bent in half, well maybe an ugly stick :) probably less to do with the mfg than the technique used by the end user.
     
  8. alpinetrout

    alpinetrout Banned or Parked

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    Having used TFO rods for vertical lifting of tuna, pulling snook and barramundi out from snags, and putting the heat on trevally to keep them out of coral heads, I'm having a tough time believing these rods are any more prone to breakage than anything else. More likely is that there is a higher frequency of breakage due to their popularity with beginners and casual fishermen who haven't quite learned not to high stick fish at their feet or how to cast a clouser without smacking the rod tip.
     
  9. Mike Etgen

    Mike Etgen Not Quite A Luddite, But Can See One From Here

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    Not wanting to wade into the TFO debate one way or another, as I don't have one, and I've never experienced any rod failure (lucky, I suspect) I have just a couple or three related thoughts or theories...

    I would suspect that operator error is probably the cause of many rod failures, probably the majority. Just a guess, based on what I've heard. And maybe, just maybe, it's more likely to happen with a "low-end" rod than a pricier rod.

    Maybe that has as much to do with one or more of the following:

    Inexperience - and the possibility that a lesser experienced user is more apt to overestimate the strength and flexibility of the rod, especially if it's their first rod.

    Care - and the possibility that someone who owns a higher-end rod might be a little more careful in how he/she handles and deploys the rod, considering how much they've got invested. Warranty or no.

    Adrenalin - as when you catch something way bigger than what you're used to and in the heat of battle, compromise your rod without realizing it.

    Myself, I've almost exclusively purchased used rods, many from WFF members. Usually, under those circumstances, I'm out on a limb as far as warranty coverage is concerned. That probably makes me just a little more cautious. However, I know I could be overpowered by a jolt of adrenalin if I tied into something unexpectedly large and powerful, expecially when I'm fishing the salt.

    One of these days...;)
     
  10. D3Smartie

    D3Smartie Active Member

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    well Bill- i assume you havent used a top end rod, and yes a TFO is an inferior product compared to a sage, winston or T&T. And $100 is a budget price for a fly rod. TFO is a mass produced product that suffers the problems associated with that type of work, namely quality control. I know plenty of people who have had good luck with their TFO rods, and others who can't seem to find one that wont break on them. The reason that people say that TFO is an inferior product is because it is a fact.
    as for beating their warranty. Try walking into Sage with a broken rod tip. Thats good customer service.
    And yes, i have sold TFO rods.
     
  11. flybill

    flybill Purveyor of fine hackle, wine & cigars!

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    Actually, I have cast many top end rods, from Sage, Winston, T&T, CND, Scott, Meiser rods and others I'm sure. I just haven't had the reason to upgrade to something that is 2 to 3 times as much as the rods that I currently have.

    As far as the TFO's being "inferior", the $100 price you give is for their lowest level of rod, mostly 2 pieces I think ranging from a 2wt to maybe a 6wt. My TFO 5wt Professional's four pieces are great and get the job done very well. I think a few others stated it better than I, however I would have no problem recommending a TFO rod as an option to anyone.

    I'm sure that TFO like many manufacturor's have had problems with specifics rods or series of rods, but doubt that it's all TFO's that have problems. Anyway, that's all I'll say on that I guess.

    Alpine probably put the best recommendation on TFO's out there, since I know that he has spent lots of time and money chasing big fish around the world...

    "Having used TFO rods for vertical lifting of tuna, pulling snook and barramundi out from snags, and putting the heat on trevally to keep them out of coral heads, I'm having a tough time believing these rods are any more prone to breakage than anything else. More likely is that there is a higher frequency of breakage due to their popularity with beginners and casual fishermen who haven't quite learned not to high stick fish at their feet or how to cast a clouser without smacking the rod tip. "

    Last as for Sage, and walking into the factory, you're obviously located over there near them and can do it easily. I need to get out there and do a tour sometime and may at sometime get a Sage rod. I love the 7141, 9140 and 9141, but just don't know what they've replaced those series with.

    Peace!
    Bill :cool:
     
  12. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    During twenty years of fishing Baja out of Loreto I've seen a lot of rods get snapped, usually by operator error. I've used TFO, Teeny, Sage, Winston and Lamiglas fly rods (all 12-13 weights) for bull dorado, sailfish, black skipjack, striped and blue marlin. I've never broken a rod. The most rods my group of anglers (36 people) ever broke during a week of fishing was six. On our night out at El Nido Steakhouse everyone who broke a rod had to spring for a bottle of wine. This might have made them extra careful in the future.
    A couple of caveats on rod breakage:
    1. Never show a fish the butt of our rod
    2. Never rest your rod on the gunwale when fighting a fish.
    Remember these two points of caution and your rod breakage will drop dramatically.
    Good Fishing,
    Les Johnson
     
  13. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    I have witnessed G.Loomis, Scott, St.Croix, Sage all breaking, usually not due to the fault of the rod but the one using it. I have also seen a couple rods (mentioned above..crack from casting...like a stress fracture. :confused:

    I'm not sure about today's rods with all the hype and or technology...but I have been told graphite breaks down over time....and breaks down faster when overloaded with weight, casting a 10 weight on a 8 weight rod will accelerate this process.

    TFO is a good quality product. They have some nice rods and are great to use by anyone...including Kreigh, Blanton, Les, Alpine, Andy, and Richard ...they have all used them at one point and I can not remember them making any reference to the TFO product being inferior.
     
  14. Peter Pancho

    Peter Pancho Active Member

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    Personally I think rods are like cars, how much of a difference is there between a 08' Toyota 4Runner and a 08' BMW X5? ... not much, and definately to me not worth the extra $25,000 just to have it say BMW on the hood.

    My point is that TFOs top rods Ticrx, JTeeny,etc DO compare to the Sage XPs and GLXs, the user testimonies alone dominate this topic.
    I've owed them all as well, XPs,GLX,Legend Elites,etc. and the Ticrx and JTeeny rods are comparable.

    So this is something to think about. I will continue to drive and cast my Toyota 4Runner with confidence.:thumb:
     
  15. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    Again, I'm not looking to get into a pro-TFO anti TFO debate. I do like the comparison to toyotas, but I dont' hold yotas in high regard. What I am asking is if people notice a tendnecy of these things to break on saltwater game. I have noticed on saltwater forums people are talking about TFOs breaking.
     
  16. Les Johnson

    Les Johnson Les Johnson

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    I don't see this as a pro/anti TFO rod discussion. I see it as a rod discussion. We all know that graphite won't take the beating of fiberglass (Those were the days when we could use our pliers to pull a fly out of our fiberglass rod and keep on fishing). I've stated my opinion on how to reduce rod breakage.
    One more issue I see as a factor in rod breakage is overfishing our tackle. Perhaps tangling with a gnarly old Skagit River chum salmon on a 6-weight (any brand) gives some folks a rush. I have always believed in having enough rod for the situation. The combination of heavy current, heavily weighted flies and mean-as-hell chum salmon is not, in my opinion condusive to the use of 6-weight tackle. This is America however and we should all fish our fly tackle the way we damned well please.
    Good Fishing,
    Les Johnson
     
  17. dryflylarry

    dryflylarry "Chasing Riseforms"

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    And speaking of rod breakage...I refer you to my FISH PAL product listed on the CLASSIFIEDS section of this forum. Check it out. Thank you. :)
     
  18. Denny

    Denny Active Member

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    Interesting. I know folks who fish heavy duty salt, and they feel TFO rods are less prone to breakage. These are very experienced fly fishers, too.

    Here's a hypothesis. Many people who would buy TFO rods, because the rods are reasonably priced and offer a great warranty and performance at their respective price points, are often beginners or who don't have a lot of experience, particularly saltwater.

    Many people at this level don't have a lot of experience fighting or landing spunky or large saltwater fish. Because of this inexperience, they will often high stick rods and break rods, and because they aren't familiar with what happened, they won't realize they were the cause of the breakage.

    I'll bet if a survey were conducted regarding the experience level of fly fishers breaking sticks, the more experienced fly fishers would break fewer rods on a relative basis.
     
  19. Sloan Craven

    Sloan Craven Active Member

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    Yes, this is the info I was looking for, Richard. Doubly interesting because it is mostly experienced angler, from what I can gleen on those other boards, that claimed breakage.
     
  20. Jon Bial

    Jon Bial Chasing the Magic

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    Comparing mass produced foreign rods to the high end rods by Sage, Winston and Loomis is like saying a store bought cookie is as good as one from the homemade batch that just came out of your Grandma's oven. It's ridiculous. If you want to compare rods, at least compare those in the same class. The question is, do TFO rods break more readily than other comparable rods.

    Jon
     

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