rod building question

Discussion in 'Rod Building' started by mike doughty, Jan 12, 2004.

  1. mike doughty Honorary Member

    Posts: 10,179
    the uinta's
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    i frequently build my own rods, but one thing i have never been quite clear on is concerning the spine in relation to the action of the rod. according to a rod building video i have you roll the tip section of the blank acrossed the ground to determine where the spine is. there are two spines, one bigger then the other. placing you r guides on one of the spines will give your rod a faster action then the other, so here is my question. if i roll the tip across the ground and find the biggest spine, that which is on the ground, to give the rod a faster action do i place the guides on the biggest spine or on the smaller spine. i don't know if this makes any sense, but i know what i am trying to say. with the bigger spine laying on the ground i always place my guides on the spine facing towards me.any help would be appreciated.
  2. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,285
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +770 / 1
    Your question is asked quite often, don't feel bad. It's one of the more vague parts of the rod building process. Regardless of the side (weak/strong) of the spine you put your guides on, alignment is critical. If your spine varies from the axis it can cause sideways energy to your cast and a tendency to "roll over" during load.
    Rodbuilding Magazine has had numerous articles on this subject as does their sister website, Rodbuilding.org. Search their databases and you can find lot's of feedback. Here's what I do: roll each section to find it's spine and tape and mark it (inside of roll). Put all the sections together and see if anything changes, after fine tuning, I place my guides on the same side as the marks, I'm building for load of the rod during the
    retrieve.

    Roper,

    Good things come to those who wade...
  3. mike doughty Honorary Member

    Posts: 10,179
    the uinta's
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    o.k., i'm trying to get as fast an action as i can out of my blank, so if i roll the blank and find the largest hump (spine), do i place the guides on that spine or on the weaker spine. thanks again. also i noticed your homemade rod wrapper on the picture gallery and asked if you are selling those. the wrapper i have is just that a wrapper that mounts to the table and i have to hold the blank and turn it by hand. so needless to say the wraps on each guide are not always the same. my rods wrok great. but am looking for a more professional look as i buold them for friends as well.
  4. mike doughty Honorary Member

    Posts: 10,179
    the uinta's
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    Roper, it sounds and looks like you know what you are doing as far as rod building, so here is another question for you. have you ever used fuji guides for your fly rods and if so what are there any disadvantages to them compared to snake guides? also is there a difference in guide size between a trout rod and a salmon/steelhead rod? thanks once again.
  5. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,285
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +770 / 1
    Nooksack34, I know enough to be dangerous as they say... :)

    By Fuji guides do you mean single foot with silicon carbide rings? Because Fuji also makes snake guides.

    Sizes are according to style of guide (snake vs. ring) and the issue of trout or steelhead would be one of size according to weight rod and style of guide.

    Roper,

    Good things come to those who wade...
  6. mike doughty Honorary Member

    Posts: 10,179
    the uinta's
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    yes i meant the single foot. i always use the double foot snake guides and was just wondering about the single foot guides. one less foot to wrap.
  7. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,285
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +770 / 1
    Very little difference between snakes and SIC guides as far as weight is concerned. I wouldn't put them on a 3 or 4 weight because they'd look "too big". But I would put them on a steelhead rod because they hold up to lots of line movement. Damn near nothing will abrade them, even heavy shooting heads. They also shine when it comes to playing and hopefully landing big fish. They come in a wonderful array of colors, even holographic and blue zirconia!
    I built a ultra-light spinning rod for my dad using the blue ring guides, and it looked great! I added dark blue wraps with silver accent wraps....sweet!
    Nooksack says to me you must live north of Everett (my town) how far north?

    Roper,

    Good things come to those who wade...
  8. mike doughty Honorary Member

    Posts: 10,179
    the uinta's
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    Nooksack says to me you must live north of Everett ( my town) how far north? Roper, i didn't ask that, or am i just slow and miss something?
  9. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,285
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +770 / 1
    Your handle, name, ID, is Nooksack34. I assumed it meant you are near to, or like to fish the Nooksack. My phrasing is much better when you can hear my voice inflection. E-mail me at Roper1952@comcast.net, I'll send you my phone number and we can yack-yack-yack.

    Roper,

    Good things come to those who wade...
  10. mike doughty Honorary Member

    Posts: 10,179
    the uinta's
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    i am slow, i just now realized what you meant. sorry
  11. Nooksack Mac Active Member

    Posts: 1,947
    Bellingham, WA, USA.
    Ratings: +109 / 0
    I've used single-foot guides on most of the rods I've built in recent years; even spey rods. I'm referring to wire guides; either black steel or TiCh ("gunsmoke gray"). Single-foot guides are faster to wind on. The weight is about the same as double foot guides, but you eliminate the second thread wrap and coating.
    I have lost one by bumping it loose against a tree limb. Here's a way to attach them more securely: as you near the base of the loop with your thread, put in your mono pull-through loop. Lift some thread loose from the spool and make an overhand wrap around the standing base of the guide as yhou pass it. Do this for two or three rod revolutions; then make two or three wraps under the base of the guide loop and pull through. I find that six wraps over the pull-through loop gives optimum tension.
  12. utah2washington New Member

    Posts: 25
    Kirkland, Washington, USA.
    Ratings: +0 / 0
    finding the spine will not give your blank a faster action. The action is determined from the taper. The only thing finding the spine will accomplish is giving the rod a stronger rod weight. But not much.I personally dont think finding the spine is as important as most think. I would rather find the blanks stiffest axis which is rarely the spine. for example: stiffest axis on guide side will strengthen your forward cast. and give your rod rating a slightly less weight number say 4.25. 4.5 is a 4 wt. stiffest axis on backside gives stronger backcast and stronger to play fish with and could give it a 4.75 which would be a stronger 4 wt. Action will remain the same. There rarely is this wide of a swing in difference between soft and stiff side but this is just an example. Sorry if this makes no sense. Also the weight of the guides will out way most effects that the spine will have on your blank. meaning no rod twist as some believe. IMO
  13. Roper Idiot Savant

    Posts: 4,285
    Glenraven Ranch
    Ratings: +770 / 1
    You just described the Forhan loop or knot. It's a great way to lock in single foot guides. It also helps to make sure and get a drop of epoxy down in the void behind the guide when your doing your wraps.

    Roper,

    Good things come to those who wade...
  14. Backyard SANCHO!

    Posts: 1,690
    The River, WA.
    Ratings: +5 / 0
    Dad yer so smert. can you build me a fishin pole :)