Rod Guides

Discussion in 'Rod Building' started by LoonhauntDave, Feb 6, 2007.

  1. LoonhauntDave

    LoonhauntDave New Member

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    I am in the process of beginning my first build. I am trying to find a location to purchase guides thread etc that gives better descriptions of the materials. For Example how does the numbering system for snake guides relate to their size and placement on the rod? I have several rods to look at as reference but I don't know what a #2 or #3 guide equates to in size???
     
  2. Craig Hardt

    Craig Hardt aka Nagasaurus

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    I was faced with this just recently with my first couple of rod builds. I went with the class option (Greg's Custom Rods in Lake Stevens) on my first rod which is nice since they have all the components right there.

    When I went to set up my next project(s) I didn't want to have to drive 40 minutes one way just to check the size of some guides so I starting using catalogs that had inner diameter measurements listed in them, such as the Batson catalog:
    (http://www.batsonenterprises.com/catalogs.php). This wasn't ideal since a listing of XYZmm wasn't super helpful and I still felt like I was just guessing.

    In retrospect (and I may still do this) when I put in my first mail order for rod building supplies I should have just bought a set of really cheap fly guides in a variety of sizes to have on hand as samples. At around 50 cents each it is cheap insurance to keep you from wasting shipping costs ordering the wrong size.
     
  3. Derek Day

    Derek Day Rockyday

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    For my first few rods I just bought guide kits, this worked fine. You can figure the rest out as you go. There are some sites which have recomended sizes, you can move the recomended sizes up or down as you see fit--if you must choose the sizes yourself.

    Derek
     
  4. LoonhauntDave

    LoonhauntDave New Member

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    Thanks, for the input, questions beget questions. Is there a rule of thumb or formula for thread diameter? This is going to be a 9'6" 8wt rod? I did not realize that there were so many variables. I found a good pdf on guide spacing from which I understand now that there is no concrete formulae. But good hints none-the-less.

    Dave
     
  5. luckybalbowa

    luckybalbowa Member

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    when it comes to guide spacing, I actually prefer to get that information from the manufacturer. If you do a static deflection test and you think the guide spacing should be different, go for it, but my money is always on the master rod designers that built the dang thing.
     
  6. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Use size 'A' thread. It's stronger than you need and looks a hell of a lot better than size 'D'...
     
  7. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    More often than not, the guide spacing will end up "similar" to factory spacing by doing it via static deflection. What you get by doing it right out of the box, is a more symmetrically spaced set of guides due to the slight variation in blank manufacturing.

    Also, in a lot of cases, there are no guide spacing charts if you plan on using more or less guides. Remember the guide spacing and number of guides is more about "covering bases" than giving the best performance.
     
  8. Tony Mull

    Tony Mull Member

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    I generally buy my blanks from mail order and the guides and cork from a local shop. This way you can see the cork and compare the guides to get just what you want. Size A thread is the way to go for sure. I try to keep the guide spacing symetrical moving an inch or so further apart for each guide moving from tip to the handle. Get them on with rubber bands or tape and run some yarn through the guides and flex the rod. You will see any guides that need adjusting. I like to put a guide close to the joint of the two sections as there needs to be some extra wrapping there anyway. I like two guides on the butt section, although a lot of people only use one. If you have a rod of the same length just use the spacing on it for a rough guide and then adjust. It doesn't need to be rocket science.
     
  9. ellisredfish

    ellisredfish New Member

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    Check out Mud Hole's web site. They have pictures of the guide sizes for fly rod guides.
     
  10. LoonhauntDave

    LoonhauntDave New Member

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    Thanks all,

    I got started on my first build. I am presently waiting for better epoxy. It was hard to mix the stuff I had and not have it stay milky as I was applying it to the thread. I learned that I had the wrong formula. Luckily I only did my keeper for starters. It doesn't look to hideous. I paid a lot of dough for the blank. I don't want to botch it up with gooey resin. I have built many many boats, and such, so I have good understanding of epox. but...the stuff I normally use for a boat has about a 2 hour pot life, and has about 72 hr cure time. I don't want to sit up all night turning my stick....What do all of you use for thread finish.

    Dave
     
  11. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Thread finish like the following

    LS Supreme
    Flex Coat
    Threadmaster

    All of these are available from anglers workshop, AATF, and others. You'll still need to turn them until they set up (usually from 2-4 hours depending on temp). After that, it usually takes 72 hours for a full cure.

    Note, these are less like epoxy glues and more like casting resins.
     
  12. LoonhauntDave

    LoonhauntDave New Member

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    I ordered some Threadmaster. I think part of the problem with the FLexcote stuff that I used was that the ambient temp was to low for the mix.

    Thanks

    Dave
     
  13. James Mello

    James Mello Inventor of the "closed eye conjecture"

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    Should be above 55... 65-75 is ideal. If the mix is cloudy, you can use the microwave for like 10 seconds to heat up the resin. That should help with the mixing... It *does* affect the pot life though, so don't heat it too much.... Other folks just carry the bottles around in the pockets for around 20 minutes and like how that warms it up too.....
     
  14. Porter

    Porter Active Member

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    James you bring up a interesting point ..... I have wondered why the 9' Xi2 has 9 guides plus tip, and the other 9' Sage makes have 10 plus tip. The guides are spaced differently than the XP or SLT (have not looked at Z-Axis close enough). I thought this might be a way for Sage to drop weight (becasue we know new rods need to be lighter) ....but maybe due to blank that is maximum performance...I just find it somewhat interesting and perplexing :confused:
     
  15. LoonhauntDave

    LoonhauntDave New Member

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    The Intrigue grows....I have a St. Croix SC IV blank, at the SC website they have guide spacing charts, and guide kits listed....They do not tell me where they can be purchased..I tried out their online store..great if I want a cap or coffee cup..

    I digress, I am going to review their recommended spacing then maybe tape the guides in place and see what it looks like with line running through them adding a light pull...My own version of a Dynamic Flex Test
     
  16. Wayne Kohan

    Wayne Kohan fish-ician

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    I have found that some of the manufacturer's recommended guide spacing charts will have the guide fall in the middle of a ferrule. One would assume the manufacturer would notice a little detail like where the ferrules are located. It makes me wonder how accurate their charts are sometimes.

    Wayne
     
  17. LoonhauntDave

    LoonhauntDave New Member

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    We can't make too much of a science out of this. If I get the rod perfect the first time it would limit my excuse capability for the purchase of the next blank. Know what I mean?:confused:
     

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