Rod variance across a manufacturers line

Discussion in 'Fly Fishing Forum' started by Kcahill, Aug 12, 2013.

  1. Kcahill

    Kcahill Active Member

    Bear with me while I explain this, let us say I have a 6wt that is my favorite rod in the whole wide world, and it has gotten to the point that I do not like fishing any of my other rods. I would like to buy the same rod in an 8wt but I do not really want to go through the trial and error of finding the perfect line again. My question is as follows:

    If a rod manufacturer has a line that is made from 3wt - 12wt and the 6wt is the perfect throwing rod if set up with a RIO Gold line, does that mean from 3-12 will all cast perfect with the grain window provided by the RIO Gold line at that weight.

    If not is it because of variance across the rods or across the lines?

    Does anyone own multiples of rods across the weight spectrum and fish the same lines across them all that can me some constructive input?

    If not maybe I will have to break out the calculators and start doing some crazy math that will turn out wrong anyway :mad:
  2. Kirk Estlick

    Kirk Estlick Active Member

    I own multiple Sage ONEs and fish Rio Grands on all of them. I sell every customer that comes in a Rio Grand for their Sage ONE unless they ask for something else in particular. For me I like the grand on my ONEs more so then a gold. So thus I keep it on all of them.

    I would tell you if you like a certain line on your 6wt and you want to get an 8wt in that same series, stick with the line you know. Your local shop might even have that same line on demo so you can cast it prior and if not they should be willing to string one up for you! At least that is what we would do if you came into our shop!
  3. Kcahill

    Kcahill Active Member

    Nice, that is what I am looking for, and the grand is the line I use also. I just wasnt sure how it spanned the weights since the line and head length change a little bit for each weight. I will get down to the fly shop at some point this week I just seem to have a lot going on all of a sudden so figured i would do some research here, thanks!
  4. Anil

    Anil Active Member

    Great question Keith. The answer is… sometimes.
    There are two basic design philosophies when it comes to building a series of rods. Both make sense, you just have to know under which philosophy the rod you are interested in was designed. Let’s divide them into these two ‘schools’:
    1) Action consistency. This school of thought holds that if I like my 6 weight to cast a certain way, wouldn’t it be nice if I could also buy a 7’ 2 weight and a 9’ 12 weight that would cast and feel as similarly as possible.
    2) Action by purpose. This school of thought holds that since you are doing very different things with your 2 weight and your 12 weight (hopefully you are), each rod should be designed for it’s likely purpose and have a different action accordingly.
    Both ideas make sense and work. Where it can be annoying and confusing for customers, is when they are in a position like you and want to buy a rod based on a previous purchase, then come to find it is completely different from what they wanted.
    You already found the answer: Ask questions and if that doesn’t work, try one out.
    LD, tridentfly, Kcahill and 1 other person like this.
  5. kmudgn

    kmudgn Member

    I have two Sage ZXL rods. One is a 4 wt from a blank that I built and the other is a 6 wt which is a factory made. Both are 9 foot. The "action" of the rods (slow/medium) is my preference and the reason I bought them. Both rods have the same/similar characteristics as (allegedly) they come from the same type blanks. I dont know about other rod lines, but my experience with the ZXLs I have is that they are very similar in casting stroke, but not of course in "feel" due to the difference in weights.
  6. Jerry Metcalf

    Jerry Metcalf FishyJere

    I am in Anil's School #1. I have a series of Sage XP rods from 2wt to 6wt and I line them with (mostly) Rio Gold.

    The rods have a similar action and feel. I can move across weights and not change my casting style and have good results. It is a system that has worked very well for me over the years.

    I found the change in timing with slower/faster rods was a detriment to my casting and concentration.

  7. Kcahill

    Kcahill Active Member

    And thats the problem I have, I mostly fish with my lightning fast 6wt and then I pick up my medium 7 or 8wt and have a hard time. Nothing a trip to the fly shop cant fix ;)
  8. Nooksack Mac

    Nooksack Mac Active Member

    I don't think that all the models in a given rod series should cast the same, or be optimized with the same model of fly line. Why not? Because they're not designed for the same tasks. If a great 3-weight is perfect for making gentle, accurate casts with little flies at thirty feet, then the 8-weight version isn't intended to cast larger flies with gentle accuracy at the same distance. It's intended to power larger flies to, usually, a considerably greater distance, and would perform best with a different type of line. The 8-weight rod in the same model series may be just the rod you need. Or you may have to look for it in a different series or brand of rods. That's life.
  9. Rob Allen

    Rob Allen Active Member

    different kinds of fishing require different rod actions

    GOOD rod can be cast with a varity of casting strokes
    you can take a sage tcx and use a nice slow relaxed stroke
    there seems to be a great misunderstanding of casting dynamics.

    there is no correlation between rod action and the stroke required to cast it.

    pick the flies you want to fish decide what line is the properly casts those flies. then find a rod that casts your chosen line in a manner you enjoy
  10. Danielocean

    Danielocean Steelhead Virgin

    Call RIO. :)
  11. tridentfly

    tridentfly Member

    This is great advice, but I've found that most rods fall somewhere in the middle. Sage tends to be a little more on the consistent end of the spectrum than other brands, but my 7100 ONE is a slower rod than say the 9' 5wt ONE.

    PM me and I'd be happy to give you a line recommendation on whichever rod you're interested in.
  12. Lugan

    Lugan Joe Streamer

    Anil's explanation matches my experience. The Scott G2 series, for example, vary by design. I talked with the series designer at the factory once and he said that the 8'4" and 9'0" rods are designed to be fished wading including roll and single spey casts, and thus have a little more relaxed and full-working progressive action. The 8'8" rods sitting in the middle are quicker-tempo and more tip action because they are designed to fire quick shots from a drift boat using mostly straight-up fly casting with a big back cast and shoot. On the other hand, I have 5 fiberglass rods from Mark Steffen and they are remarkably consistent and like the same series of fly line.

    Back to your rod series: One sure way to find out is to ask the factory. Call them - you might be surprised at how willing they are to chat.

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