Rules about non res carrying handgun?

Discussion in 'Cast & Blast' started by andrew, Aug 29, 2010.

  1. andrew

    andrew Active Member

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    My brother-in-law is coming out to hunt grouse with me and plans on bringing his o/u, which I know is allowed and WA state requires no special forms to be filled out. However, what about handguns? Can he, being a nonresident, carry while hunting? My logic is a firearm is a firearm, if they allow nonresident hunters to bring a shotgun to hunt with it seems logical that a nonresident could also carry a hangun, as long as the hunting regulations allow for such.
     
  2. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    You need to check this further Andrew; they just changed the law last season to allow it, but I'm thinking the change refered to bowhunters being able to carry during archery season. If memory serves, they were allowed to carry if they had a concealed carry permit. A quick check of the current regs doesn't mention possession, only hunting of grouse with a weapon larger than 24-caliber. As you know, WA's an open carry state, so if it's secured-with a strap or some other clearly securing device, it probably isn't going to be an issue. Good hunting!
     
  3. andrew

    andrew Active Member

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    Alex,

    Thanks, last year every hunter I bumped into while grouse hunting was carrying. Last year this time I would have said leave it at home...you don't need one. However, as stated everyone I bumped into had one...which made me wonder what do they know that I'm being ignorant about? To me it must be purely a mindset that there is always something more than bird shot within your means. Anyway, this will be the first season I intend to carry...if my pack seems too heavy it will be an easy decision.
     
  4. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Andrew,
    I will also begin carrying a sidearm due to the number of pot growing operations and meth labs. A friend stumbled across a pot operation a couple of years ago. He said it was clear that the plants had only just been cut. Also, given the shootout the two game wardens had near Moses Lake, I think I'll carry a little more muscle than a 20 gauge sxs.

    As for legal issues regarding concealed or open carry, go to the Sheriff's department and check there. I would visit the sheriff for the county you'll be hunting in. If your visitor is a non-resident and has a concealed carry permit from another state it may be okay here if the is a reciprocal agreement with that state. But check with LE in your area. The penalties, as you know, can be life changing if you break the law.
     
  5. Gary Thompson

    Gary Thompson dirty dog

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    Open carry is cool for all, resident or not.
     
  6. andrew

    andrew Active Member

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    Alex and Karl - From the following (straight from the RCW) Gary is correct.

    The following is the exception to RCW 9.41.050 (which requires the concealed weapons permit)
    RCW 9.41.060
    Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;

    Also, which is pretty cool, WA state recognizes other states concealed weapons permits (as long as they follow the few guidelines of the state)


    RCW 9.41.073
    Concealed pistol license — Reciprocity.


    (1)(a) A person licensed to carry a pistol in a state the laws of which recognize and give effect in that state to a concealed pistol license issued under the laws of the state of Washington is authorized to carry a concealed pistol in this state if:

    (i) The licensing state does not issue concealed pistol licenses to persons under twenty-one years of age; and

    (ii) The licensing state requires mandatory fingerprint-based background checks of criminal and mental health history for all persons who apply for a concealed pistol license.

    (b) This section applies to a license holder from another state only while the license holder is not a resident of this state. A license holder from another state must carry the handgun in compliance with the laws of this state.

    (2) The attorney general shall periodically publish a list of states the laws of which recognize and give effect in that state to a concealed pistol license issued under the laws of the state of Washington and which meet the requirements of subsection (1)(a)(i) and (ii) of this section.

    Thanks for the input guys!

    Andrew
     
  7. KerryS

    KerryS Ignored Member

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    I have always had a question about this. Does the highlighted line below mean that I can conceal carry while driving to and from fishing or other outdoor activity?


    RCW 9.41.060
    Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    (8) Any person engaging in a lawful outdoor recreational activity such as hunting, fishing, camping, hiking, or horseback riding, only if, considering all of the attendant circumstances, including but not limited to whether the person has a valid hunting or fishing license, it is reasonable to conclude that the person is participating in lawful outdoor activities or is traveling to or from a legitimate outdoor recreation area;
     
  8. andrew

    andrew Active Member

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    Kerry,

    From what I read this only justifies having a firearm outside of your home, in public per RCW 9.41.50; which then you must have the firearm(s) in an opaque case, and unloaded. My understanding is that the permit allows you to 'open carry' (not in a case) and loaded. For instance if you have a permit a handgun can be stuffed in your glove box, or under your seat. Where as if you don't it must be in a case and unloaded. Similar to a shotgun or rifle.

    RCW 9.41.050
    Carrying firearms.


    (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.
    RCW 9.41.060
    Exceptions to restrictions on carrying firearms.
    (9) Any person while carrying a pistol unloaded and in a closed opaque case or secure wrapper; or

    I'm totally new to this so definitely give the RCW a read for yourself. I'm just spewing what I have interpreted.

    Andrew
     
  9. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    No, guys, it's different. Washington's an open carry state, with caveats; you can't carry concealed unless you're on your own property-where you also actually live, or at the business you actually own (or have the owner's permission to carry concealed). You also may NOT have a loaded firearm in your vehicle, unless you have a concealed carry permit. However, if you want to carry openly, and loaded, feel free to do so in most areas. There's several areas where open carry and concealed carry sort of overlap, and may actually conflict, and several areas where they're banned entirely. For example, open carry isn't allowed in a school, but concealed carry is permitted if-and only if-you're on school grounds to pick up your child. Neither carry is allowed in liquor stores or bars, and concealed carry is permitted in the pre-screen areas of airports, but not in the "restricted to passengers" areas. Even though you have a concealed carry license, you cannot just put the weapon in your console or glove box in your vehicle-it must be physically ON your person. Unfortunately, carrying concealed in a vehicle, the thing usually interferes with seat belt use, and isn't comfortable to sit on, so most of us remove it from the holster. That's a no-no.

    The open carry in the forest during hunting season applied to bowhunters last year. In prior years, it was assumed that they could use the weapon to take deer or elk during the archery season. However, last year the law was changed to allow for carrying a sidearm, possibly in response to the meth-heads and pot farmers posing a public safety issue. Washington's reciprocity doesn't extend to states which require a class before granting the carry permit. This is why I also have a Utah non-resident CCP; this document covers the more restrictive states.
     
  10. andrew

    andrew Active Member

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    I'm not talking concealed, I'm talking out in the open/holster visible while I'm grouse hunting. Which is permitted without a concealed weapons permit.
     
  11. tkww

    tkww Member

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    I'm wondering if you have a source for this. The law as I could find it readas follows:

    "(2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle."

    Seems to me the law says the pistol can be just about anywhere as long as you're there too. And if you're not there but the gun still is, you have to lock your vehicle with the gun out of sight. "or" is the key phrase in that paragraph.
     
  12. Upton O

    Upton O Blind hog fisherman

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    Okay, let me clarify this so I'm sure I understand: you are asking, on a fly fishing forum, a very important question about carrying a handgun . In this day and time and especially in the western portion of this state it is very wise to be informed on the laws regarding both concealed and open carry. I'm glad you're concerned. Why don't you ask a deputy sheriff, a State Patrol trooper or someone else in law enforcement for clarification? There are a lot of knowledgable people here and I'm sure much of what they are saying is correct. But for your legal safety, check with law enforcement. Or don't. But if you get popped for violating a handgun law as a result of information provided on this forum, it is likely going to be a felony. At the very least its going to cost you an arm and a leg for legal counsel and defense. Ask the experts who are wearing the badges. Also, there is a desired protocol for advising any LE officer with whom you interact, that you are carrying a handgun, either open or concealed. It is beneficial, even if you're doing everything legal and highly advisable so you don't get roughed up or spread on a car hood with a gun to your head by a nervous or surprised officer especially in traffic stops. It goes like this: with both hands on the steering wheel or held out if front of you, say "Hello officer, I want you to know that I have a concealed carry permit and I am carrying at this time. What do you want me to do?" or "Officer, I want to advise you that I am carrying open a handgun. It is on my belt at my (side, back, whatever). The police in this state are getting shot at a lot these days. They need all of the help we can give them to reduce the stress.
     
  13. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    Karl, great advise!!

    Andrew,
    IMO rather than mess with any questions about carrying a handgun. If you are concerned about two or four legged dangers get some buckshot. You won't have any issues carrying it, more effective in an emergency situation for the average to above average shot in a stressful situation.
     
  14. Josh

    Josh dead in the water

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    It's confusion over rules such as that (and that I'm an impatient SOB) that led me to get my CCW even though I never carry and have no real interest in doing so.

    EDIT: I should note that the "impatient" comment above was in regards to the 5 day waiting period. Nothing else.
     
  15. Alex MacDonald

    Alex MacDonald Dr. of Doomology

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    TKWW, Yes, it's there-if you're a permitee, and choose to carry, the weapon has to be on your person while you're in the car. That's what I was referring to, and since both of mine are not comfortable to drive while they're holstered, I've been known to put them in my console. I see that I can't do that, since the console or glove box isn't considered on my "person". If I decide to pick up a bottle of scotch, I can't carry it into the store, so I have to leave it in the car. If I then put it in the console and lock the car, I'm ok, but while I'm driving, if I still leave the weapon in the console, that's illegal. I believe that section is inserted to allow ccw holders to enter places where they wouldn't be allowed to carry, and not have to leave the weapon home entirely. What do you guys think? Does that interpretation make sense?
     
  16. Skysoldier

    Skysoldier Trout Hunter

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    Great post all around Karl but this was the best advice given so far.
     
  17. andrew

    andrew Active Member

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    Sorry all for opening a can o' worms, but I did take the advice and call the sheriffs department, who then directed me to call the WA department of licensing, firearms division. Needless to say my fact finding mission just came out of warp drive into an information black hole.

    The response I was given by the sheriffs department was priceless "Ya know I'm not really sure. I know you can own a handgun, but I don't think you can carry it concealed." What if it is in a holster plainly visible on my body while hunting? "You need to talk to the DOL...and talk to the real guru about this."
     
  18. Trent

    Trent Ugly member

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    Just bring the damn gun, this is America after all. All The CPL is is a tax on our 2nd Amendment Rights. I don't know when mine expired or if it has yet, but I don't carry the permit and I haven't for awhile, nor will I pay the tax again just to exersise my RIGHT (rights should not be taxed).
     
  19. floatinghat

    floatinghat Member

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    Trent,

    Exercise that right and carry. You are legally (in Washington) required to have and carry your CPL if you conceal a handgun. To argue otherwise is at best a political statement (which I think is fine, it’s our First Amendment right) and at worst a one way trip to the slammer. You are under your 2nd amendment right allowed to bear arms, which in Washington state would be open carry of a handgun. Concealing your weapon without following the law with intention makes you a criminal and you might spend some time with Bubba.

    I support your right to do as you do!
     
  20. tkww

    tkww Member

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    Saddly.... ah, never mind, just read the post above about checking w/ LE.

    :beathead: Or, you could just read the actual law, where it states that a violation is a misdemeanor.

    If you're going to speak despairingly of armchair quarterbacking, you might consider restraining from it yourself. Just a thought.

    There is no such thing as a "desired protocol." There is only the law. Your obligations and your rights are outlined therein.

    Different states have different requirements. I will openly say that on the following point I am not positive, but it is my recolection that you are not obliagated under WA law in inform an officer that you are carrying. Obviously, if you are asked, then you would need to answer. But just because you and an officer are in proximity--which can happen in a lot of places besides a car--doesn't mean your gun is automatically the first topic of conversation.

    (And really, what is someone doing that gets them hauled out of a car and frisked?)

    It should also be noted that when LEOs run your information, they know you are a permit holder. If it then comes up in conversation--which it can because they sometimes ask upon learning your permit status--discuss it with them. This isn't rocket science. No one is going to be mad at you because you didn't open up the conversation with "BTW, I'm packing."


    Alex,

    That's interesting, I really don't read it that way. Seems to me that parts I and II don't really go together unless the pistol can be stored separately. To say that it both "has be on your person" and "you have to be in the vehicle it's in" doesn't make sense. But then, saying that it has to be on your person doesn't make sense if just being in the same vehicle was sufficient. So I can see how either way could be an interpretation. I'm going to look into this further.